Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lowering springs are now available from Madness Autoworks for Q4 models and they also are currently discounted to $199. Anyone have any experience with these? I would love to lower my car, especially to fix the nasty excess wheel gap the Q4 models inherit. My only concern is whether or not they are compatible with the adaptive suspension...

Any ideas?

https://madnessautoworks.com/alfa-r...gs-by-madness-non-quadrifoglio-models-pid7247
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
What's suspicious is that they are the only ones selling springs that are interchangeable with the Q2 and Q4 while others only make it for one drivetrain. I'd be weary unless we get some first hand experience with those springs on a Q4. Hopefully someone chimes in with these springs on a Q4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
There have been no issues since they were installed, other then increased handling and stiffness (the margin to bottoming out the springs is less, so beware of potholes). The true test will be this winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
There have been no issues since they were installed, other then increased handling and stiffness (the margin to bottoming out the springs is less, so beware of potholes). The true test will be this winter.
Good to hear.

Any idea on how much the car was lowered? Before and after measurements would be great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
They lower true to the specs Madness supplied - 1.4".
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,423 Posts
@BobM, has these installed on his Q4. Perhaps he can give an update on how things are going .

https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/...rformance-lowering-springs-your-giulia-4.html

I'm still holding out for a purpose built solution for the Q4.
I agree. Looks way to low. I would not mess too much with the suspension geometry, modern cars don't fair well these days from lowering even though I'd like a slightly lower spring myself, the issues outweigh the benefits. .5" lower is something I'd be interested in. Something I need work on...
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,423 Posts
I am actually looking at the idea of OEM sport package springs on the Q4. I don't want to use a lowering spring, I'd prefer to try a different OEM spring in order to lower. But that said, a stock Q2 spring may do nothing. I have done this on another marque. Using a european spring in place of the US which lowered it by half an inch. More research is needed. Way to early for me to say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
On the car that is in the pictures if it had the 19" wheels it wouldn't seem as slammed like it does with those smaller wheels. If you have the 19's i dont think

you'd have a issue at all.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,423 Posts
Lowering will basically ruin the geometry severely. It creates more issues than it does good. You actually have more sway in a lowered car than a stock height performance car like this. Lowering springs are big business but in reality are a useless exercise. This is why I look at the OEM spring over any aftermarket. But at this point the Q4 sits low enough. All aftermarket lowering springs lower too much causing control arms to go below parallel. Looks are one thing, proper handling is another. Lowering springs do not fit into the proper handling category unless the rest of the suspension is modified in order to handle such lowering and that could take some serious engineering. Most race team engineers can do this. Most aftermarket companies and consumers cannot. I really do not think the Q4 is too high. Mine below, looks pretty good to me.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
Lowering will basically ruin the geometry severely. It creates more issues than it does good. You actually have more sway in a lowered car than a stock height performance car like this. Lowering springs are big business but in reality are a useless exercise. This is why I look at the OEM spring over any aftermarket. But at this point the Q4 sits low enough. All aftermarket lowering springs lower too much causing control arms to go below parallel. Looks are one thing, proper handling is another. Lowering springs do not fit into the proper handling category unless the rest of the suspension is modified in order to handle such lowering and that could take some serious engineering. Most race team engineers can do this. Most aftermarket companies and consumers cannot. I really do not think the Q4 is too high. Mine below, looks pretty good to me.
Literally nothing you said in this post is true.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,423 Posts
"Suspension: OEM suspensions are indeed quite good, and swapping out springs and shocks is generally unnecessary until you are getting into last ounce performance. Where suspension mods can make a HUGE difference is adding full alignment capabilities through things like adjustable control arms and camber plates- what is needed to get a true performance alignment will depend on the vehicle. Most OEM suspensions are designed to understeer and maximize tire life under daily driving conditions- this is safer for the average driver. To get the car more neutral or even slightly oversteer biased (useful if you autocross), you can stiffen up the rear with a bigger swaybar. More negative camber than the factory provides is usually necessary if you don't want to cook the outside if your tires in performance driving conditions. If you are looking for every last ounce of performance, a high-end coilover setup (not your cut-rate "stance" bro ebay special) from companies like Ohlin will improve damping and allow better corner weighting than allowed from the factory. "

"Suspension geometry in jounce (bump) is the primary variable in road vehicle handling, not ride height. The 164 was designed for 195/65 or 205/55 section tires. Those sections are not as much affected by camber change as newer fashion tires which are frankly getting ridiculous for road use. Even a 40 series tire is pretty much useless over a bumpy road and 35 is pathetically incompetent on most North American road surfaces, especially anywhere that gets deep frost winters. I note that the UK motoring press are starting to push back against mainly European makers who ignore these practicalities in the pursuit of wheels and tires as fashion statements.

To use part of one of Martin Brundle's favourite sayings the largest effect on vehicle performance is provided by changing the nut behind the wheel. For a really good illustration of this effect check out Top Gear's F1 stars in a reasonably priced car hot laps. Lewis Hamilton in particular gives a master class demonstration of what it actually takes to extract 100% out of ANY car chassis. The shot of Lewis dancing a $h!tbox car through Gambon is truly priceless stuff."

https://youtu.be/wN-ChMp4uR4

Sorry but just using lowering springs is a useless exercise. It does in-fact throw millions of $$ in R&D out the window for a "look". Giulia's are low enough. A standard height Giulia will out perform a lowered giulia on whatever spring you choose any day of the week.

One of the best documents about suspension geometry around:

https://balancemotorsport.co.uk/suspension-geometry

"As we already found in the weight transfer section that corner speed is a function of track width, weight and CG Height then surely it stands to reason that the more you lower the car the faster it will be able to round the corner?
If only it were so simple!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
"Suspension: OEM suspensions are indeed quite good, and swapping out springs and shocks is generally unnecessary until you are getting into last ounce performance. Where suspension mods can make a HUGE difference is adding full alignment capabilities through things like adjustable control arms and camber plates- what is needed to get a true performance alignment will depend on the vehicle. Most OEM suspensions are designed to understeer and maximize tire life under daily driving conditions- this is safer for the average driver. To get the car more neutral or even slightly oversteer biased (useful if you autocross), you can stiffen up the rear with a bigger swaybar. More negative camber than the factory provides is usually necessary if you don't want to cook the outside if your tires in performance driving conditions. If you are looking for every last ounce of performance, a high-end coilover setup (not your cut-rate "stance" bro ebay special) from companies like Ohlin will improve damping and allow better corner weighting than allowed from the factory. "

"Suspension geometry in jounce (bump) is the primary variable in road vehicle handling, not ride height. The 164 was designed for 195/65 or 205/55 section tires. Those sections are not as much affected by camber change as newer fashion tires which are frankly getting ridiculous for road use. Even a 40 series tire is pretty much useless over a bumpy road and 35 is pathetically incompetent on most North American road surfaces, especially anywhere that gets deep frost winters. I note that the UK motoring press are starting to push back against mainly European makers who ignore these practicalities in the pursuit of wheels and tires as fashion statements.

To use part of one of Martin Brundle's favourite sayings the largest effect on vehicle performance is provided by changing the nut behind the wheel. For a really good illustration of this effect check out Top Gear's F1 stars in a reasonably priced car hot laps. Lewis Hamilton in particular gives a master class demonstration of what it actually takes to extract 100% out of ANY car chassis. The shot of Lewis dancing a $h!tbox car through Gambon is truly priceless stuff."

https://youtu.be/wN-ChMp4uR4

Sorry but just using lowering springs is a useless exercise. It does in-fact throw millions of $$ in R&D out the window for a "look". Giulia's are low enough. A standard height Giulia will out perform a lowered giulia on whatever spring you choose any day of the week.

One of the best documents about suspension geometry around:

https://balancemotorsport.co.uk/suspension-geometry

"As we already found in the weight transfer section that corner speed is a function of track width, weight and CG Height then surely it stands to reason that the more you lower the car the faster it will be able to round the corner?
If only it were so simple!"

Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with an aftermarket exhaust?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a custom intake?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a tune?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a custom wheels?

The list goes on and on. Car MFR's make compromises to appeal to a broad audience and buyers change things out when they don't agree with the compromises. Ride height is no different.

While lowering a car doesn't *necessarily* make it magically handle better, it doesn't automatically "ruin the geometry". With a moderate drop on the giulia, you simply add a little more negative camber while (subjectively) making the car look better. In some cases, like in the 2018 QV, it takes the geometry back to how the car was actually designed.

And your statement that lowering the giulia adds more sway is not only false, it's ridiculous.
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,729 Posts
I'm no suspension expert, but the referenced article relates primarily to the front MacPherson strut suspension found on many FWD cars. The point being that the oddities of MacPherson strut suspension can make the lower arms force the suspension to move in the opposite direction that seems right when the car is lowered.

However, Giulia does not have MacPherson strut suspension and the change in behavior will be different than for a car with MacPherson struts when lowered. I can't say if lowered suspension in a Giulia will achieve any particular benefit, only that the referenced paper describes the wrong geometry relative to Giulia.

Lowered suspension is expected to provide improved aerodynamics for any vehicle (higher top speed, more stable at high speed, improved fuel economy). Lowered suspension necessarily has stiffer springs (usually progressive) which can degrade ride quality and cause traction problems on rough pavement.

I believe some forum members have experimented with lowering and have found that it is beneficial for on track performance. On road benefits are more debatable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
316 Posts
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with an aftermarket exhaust?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a custom intake?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a tune?
Why throw out millions of $$$ in R/D to go with a custom wheels?

The list goes on and on. Car MFR's make compromises to appeal to a broad audience and buyers change things out when they don't agree with the compromises. Ride height is no different.

While lowering a car doesn't *necessarily* make it magically handle better, it doesn't automatically "ruin the geometry". With a moderate drop on the giulia, you simply add a little more negative camber while (subjectively) making the car look better. In some cases, like in the 2018 QV, it takes the geometry back to how the car was actually designed.

And your statement that lowering the giulia adds more sway is not only false, it's ridiculous.
Agreed. The millions in R&D is spent on creating a mass market vehicle the appeals to general tastes. This may be a sports car, but’s it’s not a race car. The whole point of modding is to hone into individual tastes whether it’s for look or performance. Also that R&D money doesn’t take away from the target margin that the company is trying to make, and for a car in this price range there’s going to be some sacrifices. I do think that more was focused on handling due to the performance nature of the vehicle, but that’s probably also why it’s not as techy as some of its competitors. There are always ways to improve it, but honestly if I were to lower the car I would at minimum go with a complete coilover kit designed for the specific model Given that the Q2 and Q4 have different stock ride heights and suspension setup I wouldn’t feel comfortable with a kit not specifically designed for the Q4.
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Top