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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi 馃枑

Just here sitting and thinking how many people on this forum drive 2.2 Diesel Giulia as well. What I noticed is that with a manual transmission you can get pretty good results if it comes to fuel efficiency. My avg consumption after 2000 km (about 1250 mi) is a healthy 6,5 l/100km (36,2 mpg), mostly driving outside town, but not like a grandpa 馃槇 I suppose it's quite obvious, after all that's why you buy a Giulia, not to drive slow 馃榿 BTW, my diesel is a RWD with 180 HP, but I am thinking about some software tweaks in the future.

I am wondering if any of you diesel users has been measuring this long term fuel consumption. Let me know about your setup (how many hrsprs, RWD or AWD, which transmission) and your result.

Cheers!

Light Automotive design Gauge Car Speedometer
 

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2021 Giulia Sprint
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Never had a diesel Alfa, but for comparison I consistently get 3.9 - 4l/100 km (58 - 59 mpg US) on my Nissan with its 65hp 1.5 dCi diesel in the nose :p It's a glorified wheel barrow anyway.

Interesting to see the 2.2 diesels are less frugal than the old 5 cyl 2.4 mJets! Or maybe it's your driving style ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah, at first I was trying my best to lower the consumption, but it was killing all the joy from driving, and since I am spending 2 hours daily behind the wheel... I stopped trying, and just focused on pleasure 馃槃 Therefore I think 6,5 is quite acceptable, especially taking into consideration that my previous car - 1,9 JTD Fiat Croma was on the same level basically, and had only 120 horsepower. Anyway - looking forward to some more examples of consumption in diesel Giulia to compare
 

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I stopped trying, and just focused on pleasure 馃槃
I guess that's one way of ridding the world of fossil fuels 馃榿
A friend of mine owned an E60 BMW M5 and had a very simple take on fuel consumption; "When the tank is empty you fill it up again. The end."
 
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Giulia 2016 2.2 180 MT
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I own rwd 180hp manual diesel too. My average is now 6,7l/100km. That is mix of city driving, spirited driving, everyday commute and trips. Do you hear any weird sounds from transmision when shifting especially if shifting is on low rpms. Like going from one gear to another and when the transmision disengages from gear and right before it engages another is like some flywheel sound or sorr of that...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I own rwd 180hp manual diesel too. My average is now 6,7l/100km. That is mix of city driving, spirited driving, everyday commute and trips. Do you hear any weird sounds from transmision when shifting especially if shifting is on low rpms. Like going from one gear to another and when the transmision disengages from gear and right before it engages another is like some flywheel sound or sorr of that...
Yes! I couldn't say it better myself. How many kilometers do you have on it? In my case it's 73k, and I am wondering if something is starting to wear out, or if it's just how this gearbox is :unsure:
 

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Giulia 2016 2.2 180 MT
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Thank god i am not the only one...lol mine only has 23000km and I predicted there cant be anything wrong at that low number of km. I actually dont know a car that would have wear or problems on manual transmision last 10 years or more especially at that low numbers..it is old/proven technology now :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank god i am not the only one...lol mine only has 23000km and I predicted there cant be anything wrong at that low number of km. I actually dont know a car that would have wear or problems on manual transmision last 10 years or more especially at that low numbers..it is old/proven technology now :)
Ok, then I guess we have to accept that :LOL: A little more relaxed now. As for the gear changes themselves I think the shifter is pretty good, going into gears with nice clicks, although I hate the way you engage the reverse gear. Why couldn't they make it with the lifting ring like in most cars?! Now every time I put the car in reverse I am afraid of breaking the damn lever 馃槅
 

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2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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What constitutes driving fast, how much in town, etc varies a lot from area to area and person to person. 49km/h seems to imply a lot of in town driving in spite of saying "mostly driving outside town".

I am suspicious that the fuel economy advantage of modern diesels over modern direct injection gasoline is small, particularly after accounting for the increased energy density of diesel fuel over gasoline. Diesel powered passenger vehicles are not very popular in the USA and the diesel Giulia is not available at all.

In my gasoline powered automatic transmission Q4 I get about 8.4l/100km (equivalent to 7.6l/100km for diesel) at an average speed of about 90km/h. This is about 90-95% on highway, but includes starting from sea level and driving over a 3000m high pass on a very windy road moderately aggressively. Would a diesel engine really improve fuel economy?

According to the gauge in the instrument panel, in town I get about 10.7l/100km, over the pass I get about 14.7l/100km and flat highway speed (113kph is legal around here) I get about 6.9l/100km.

Specifics of my weekly drive as an example of the level of detail needed to be able to compare fuel economy:
Distance one way is 200 miles
About 90 miles is at a constant 113kph (instant readout shows about 34MPG)
About 10 miles is at a constant 121kph. (instant readout shows about 31MPG)
About 60 miles is at a constant 96kph, including about 2000m of altitude increase when east bound. (instant readout shows about 37MPG on flat sections)
About 40 smiles is over the mountain pass including 1000m up and 1000m back down, lots of curves, braking, hard acceleration, etc. (not looking at instruments)
About 10 miles of the total is in town. I must stop typically about 10 times for traffic controls.
I drive late at night and encounter relatively little traffic.
 

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Giulia 2016 2.2 180 MT
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At average speed 90kmh I am sure that diesel would have under 6l/100km consumption. I can say that people i know that own giulias petrol 280hp with about same driving style and routes that I have..they are hardly under 10l/100km. And with prices only cents away from 1,5鈧 per liter that is a big difference. I would love to own giulia Veloce petrol,( i think that is sport ti or something similar in america) but prices for veloce petrols are about 30% or more higher than diesels..and big factor for me I enjoy manual transmision...and petrol giulias are only automatics.. I know that these ZF automatics are the best on the market right now but it takes too big factor of driving fun for me. Maybe next one will be Petrol Veloce Ti...that is top trim before qv in eu. Alcantara seats, black ceiling, carbon oem spoiler and side skirts, leather dash....from 2019 and newer there is no manual even in qv or diesel even in europe.
In town here in Slovenia it is mostly 50kmh limit but i usually drive at around 55. On highway it is 130 and I never drive slower than 140.usually around 140-150..with occasionally moments plus 200...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here in Europe fuel is quite expensive, right now in Poland we are paying around 6 PLN per liter (~1,5 USD), both for diesel and gasoline. That's why most people are trying to keep fuel consumption as low as possible, and diesel cars are popular. Because it makes a huge difference in the monthly fuel expenses, depending on whether you burn 6-7 l/100km or 9-10 l/100km.

@lockem - you mentioned getting 8,4 l/100km consumption at 90-95% highway. My result would probably be around 10-11 litres as my daily drive is 40-50% town (typical stop & go traffic lights driving) and the rest is highway. Doing about 2k km monthly I would definitely feel the difference, this is why I decided to go with diesel Giulia.

I agree that some of modern gasoline engines are very fuel efficient, for example VW's. Their gas engines are comparable in fuel consumption to diesels. But I don't think that Giulia's engines also belong to this category 馃榿

How much do you pay for one liter of gasoline in the US?
 

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Here in Europe fuel is quite expensive, right now in Poland we are paying around 6 PLN per liter (~1,5 USD), both for diesel and gasoline. That's why most people are trying to keep fuel consumption as low as possible, and diesel cars are popular. Because it makes a huge difference in the monthly fuel expenses, depending on whether you burn 6-7 l/100km or 9-10 l/100km.

@lockem - you mentioned getting 8,4 l/100km consumption at 90-95% highway. My result would probably be around 10-11 litres as my daily drive is 40-50% town (typical stop & go traffic lights driving) and the rest is highway. Doing about 2k km monthly I would definitely feel the difference, this is why I decided to go with diesel Giulia.

I agree that some of modern gasoline engines are very fuel efficient, for example VW's. Their gas engines are comparable in fuel consumption to diesels. But I don't think that Giulia's engines also belong to this category 馃榿

How much do you pay for one liter of gasoline in the US?
It depends on where you are. Currently in Bridgeport California 91 octane (about 97 octane by European standards) is $5.99/gallon, or $1.58/liter. However, Bridgeport is "special". In the SF bay area 91 octane is around $4.89/gallon or $1.29/liter. Diesel is slightly more expensive than 91 octane gasoline. California is famous for having higher fuel costs than other states (actually, I believe that Alaska and Hawaii are more expensive). Part of that being due to a "mystery charge" that nobody seems to be able to explain how it is justified or where it goes.

From a carbon emissions perspective, diesel generates about 20% more CO2/liter than gasoline, so to reduce your footprint with diesel power you need to get more than 20% better fuel economy than gas power.

When I bought my diesel pickup truck 21 years ago, diesels burned about 1/2 as much fuel as gasoline engines in the same configuration truck and diesel fuel was about 2/3rds of the price of gasoline. Even that huge gap is largely or completely closed now.
 

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2018 Q4 White/Black, Performance Pkg., Leather Pkg., 35W Xenon, Static Assist, Sunroof, Navigation
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It depends on where you are. Currently, in Bridgeport California, 91 octane (about 97 octane by European standards) is $5.99/gallon or $1.58/liter. However, Bridgeport is "special". In the SF bay area, 91 octane is around $4.89/gallon or $1.29/liter. Diesel is slightly more expensive than 91 octane gasoline. California is famous for having higher fuel costs than other states (actually, I believe that Alaska and Hawaii are more expensive). Part of that being due to a "mystery charge" that nobody seems to be able to explain how it is justified or where it goes.

From a carbon emissions perspective, diesel generates about 20% more CO2/liter than gasoline, so to reduce your footprint with diesel power you need to get more than 20% better fuel economy than gas power.

When I bought my diesel pickup truck 21 years ago, diesels burned about 1/2 as much fuel as gasoline engines in the same configuration truck. Even that huge gap is largely or completely closed now.
That's a well-written comparison and explanation for our European brothers!
 

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Giulia 2016 2.2 180 MT
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Giulia 2.2 diesel has 109g/km of co2...giulia petrol has 139 g/km .. 1.58cad is 1,1 鈧. And with the prices going up we will soon reach close to 2鈧 per liter...some countries already has prices over 1,8鈧 per liter. And with lets say 3 to 4 liters difference on 100km diesel/petrol it is becoming a big difference. The big factor for me was the manual..if there would be manual petrol giulia I would definitely buy petrol one. And thanks for the well explained prices on your side. Couple of years from now we will sadly be talking about kw consumption per 100km...thats why i bought manual because this is the last manual internal combustion csr from alfa if you ask me. All new models will be some kind of hybrid or electric and there usually are no manuals. Giulias from 2019 and newer already are just automatics.
 

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Giulia 2.2 diesel has 109g/km of co2...giulia petrol has 139 g/km .. 1.58cad is 1,1 鈧. And with the prices going up we will soon reach close to 2鈧 per liter...some countries already has prices over 1,8鈧 per liter. And with lets say 3 to 4 liters difference on 100km diesel/petrol it is becoming a big difference. The big factor for me was the manual..if there would be manual petrol giulia I would definitely buy petrol one. And thanks for the well explained prices on your side. Couple of years from now we will sadly be talking about kw consumption per 100km...thats why i bought manual because this is the last manual internal combustion csr from alfa if you ask me. All new models will be some kind of hybrid or electric and there usually are no manuals. Giulias from 2019 and newer already are just automatics.
Yea, and Giulia weighs 1350kg has been claimed too. Weigh your car, that number is not close. The lowest reported number is about 1565kg for a gas powered RWD base sprint model with no options.

European fuel economy claims are famous for understating fuel use of vehicles and especially of diesel vehicles (maybe some politics involved?). Unfortunately the EPA has not tested a diesel Giulia for comparison and only recently started testing diesels at all.

Burning diesel produces 2640 grams of CO2/liter, so (109/2640)*100 => 4.1l/100km (57MPG! US gallons!). Who here is getting anything close to 4.1l/100km from their diesel Giulia? I don't see anybody posting anything close above.

Burning gasoline produces 2392 grams of CO2/liter, so (139/2392)*100 => 5.8l/100km (40.6MPG). Nobody is getting that either. The highest number I remember having seen in the forums was a Greek driver who got about 5.8l/100km in his DIESEL Giulia, while driving a long distance at very modest speeds. I think one guy stated that he got 40MPG driving his Q4 from SF to Sacto and back, but that run often has a tail wind in both directions (really!) due to California's peculiar topology.

Maybe if you drive a constant and level 70kph for a whole tank of gas you can get those values. Nobody drives like that. I call bull sh*t.

* Air in Sacto heats up in the morning, rising and drawing a strong current of air through the Golden Gate, across the SF bay (an area known as "the slot" to sail boaters, and apparently taking the America's Cup competitors by surprise), and up the Carquinez Strait (leads to Sacto). The slot is one of the few places on the planet where you can sail daily in a gale force wind. When the sun goes down the process reverses, blowing a gentler breeze in the opposite direction. My bicycle commute up and down Bowers in Silicon Valley used to yield a light tail wind in both directions on most days. Now I go a different route at different times, so I miss out.
 

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I never saw review or specs in europe that giulia weights only 1350. But we all know how well car companies are lying about weight, consumption, horsepower numbers etc. In the end..its about the smiles per galon not the miles...and giulia drivers sure get alot of smiles :)
 

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I never saw review or specs in europe that giulia weights only 1350. But we all know how well car companies are lying about weight, consumption, horsepower numbers etc. In the end..its about the smiles per galon not the miles...and giulia drivers sure get alot of smiles :)
The lying (or stretching of the truth) by car companies is why it is illegal to advertise a vehicle for sale in the USA with fuel economy numbers other than what the EPA measured. The EPA has had issues, but is far more realistic than manufacturers claims. The EPA applies the same measurement for all mfgs at least within a model year. This yields numbers that at least can be compared across models and manufacturers. They revise their measurement method from time to time so ratings of different model year vehicles do not necessarily compare well. If people don't get the fuel economy the EPA measured the EPA takes a lot of flak, so they tend to be fairly accurate.

I suspect that mfg MPG numbers can be achieved under some circumstance so that they are not out-right lying. The problem is that the numbers do not reflect real use.
Even within that I do not believe that the diesel Giulia can be 40% more efficient than the gasoline Giulia.

For highway mileage the test assumes a commute in traffic, so the speed is limited and varies a lot. This penalizes heavy vehicles with good aerodynamics, like Giulia; accounting for why people in the USA seem to be averaging about 10% better fuel economy than the EPA figure (31MPG for a Q4, 33MPG for RWD) on long highway drives.

I do not see fuel being a lot more expensive in Europe vs California either. OTOH, I was told that diesel fuel and vehicles are subsidized via a reduced tax rate in Europe, perhaps accounting for the popularity. The last time I checked, diesel exhaust (soot) was the only component of smog that has been clearly demonstrated to cause health issues.
 

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36mpg is pretty terrible for a 4 cyl diesel tbh. Our Veloce 280 is returning 33 average, my 320i is on a long term 37.5, my previous 520d was a long term average of 49 and my wife's previous 330d was 32. All a mixture of motorway, town and some very spirited driving. I'm about to go into a 2.2 Stelvio doing 25k miles pa so this is slightly worrying.
 

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36mpg is pretty terrible for a 4 cyl diesel tbh. Our Veloce 280 is returning 33 average, my 320i is on a long term 37.5, my previous 520d was a long term average of 49 and my wife's previous 330d was 32. All a mixture of motorway, town and some very spirited driving. I'm about to go into a 2.2 Stelvio doing 25k miles pa so this is slightly worrying.
But you are likely using Imperial gallons, not US gallons that were used above. Multiply all of the MPG numbers in this thread by 1.2 (or divide your numbers by 1.2) to have something to compare.

Better yet, convert to metric since liters and meters are unambiguous.
 
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