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Discussion Starter #101
Yup i tried more aggressive settings as well. Nothing. I contacted them to let them know i did controlled conditions testing and no difference was found from stock and they didnt argue nor propose a solution. Just accepted the return.
 

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Posted a message on the JB4 board, but post recall reflash my car is no bueno with the v3 Map 2 (never an issue prior) Instantly threw 4 codes as soon as I hit 5600 RPM.

No issue though after upgrading to v5 firmware.
 

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2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport
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Still think JB4 would be worth it if I don’t have access to 93 octane? Just 91 here in Northern Colorado.
Eurocompulsion only requires 91 octane for their most aggressive tune, so I imagine the Jb4 isn't any different. You can boost the octane a little bit more by mixing in 2-3 gallons of E85 (Recommended by Burger Moto themselves). I actually run EC and Jb4 simultaneously with no problems. I use the Jb4 as a custom boost controller, I don't really use their preloaded maps because they're a little too hot to use on top of an ECU flash.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Eurocompulsion only requires 91 octane for their most aggressive tune, so I imagine the Jb4 isn't any different. You can boost the octane a little bit more by mixing in 2-3 gallons of E85 (Recommended by Burger Moto themselves). I actually run EC and Jb4 simultaneously with no problems. I use the Jb4 as a custom boost controller, I don't really use their preloaded maps because they're a little too hot to use on top of an ECU flash.
Are you able to see any added boost to ec p2? Love to see a log
 

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Are you able to see any added boost to ec p2? Love to see a log
The Giulia runs about 25psi max in stock form. I didn't run logs with phase 2 yet because I just installed it yesterday, but phase 1 didn't really show any boost increase over stock. Maybe 1psi or so. When I initially uploaded Phase 1, it felt incredibly slow compared to the Jb4, so that's why I put it back in and run both. They may have modified the boost to kick in lower down, but my logs BARELY showed additional boost over stock. The jb4 in conjunction with Phase 1 allowed me to see boost levels as high as 31 psi. I truly believe Eurocompulsion is a bit generous with their numbers because the performance felt far inferior to the Jb4 even though the dyno ratings are similar. Not once did I feel like it was better than the Jb4. Believe me, Eurocompulsion works great WITH the Jb4 helping, but it doesn't satisfy me by itself. However, one of the major benefits to Eurocompulsion is it cleans up everything that the Jb4 can't control, and the car 100% drives better with the flash. The EC tune also seems to increase the tolerances for limp mode because it no longer activates while running Jb4 map 2. I had the same problem as you with limp mode kicking in, but it no longer does it since I uploaded the flash.

This is a crappy log because it's only a few seconds long, but it shows some data with EC phase 1 and jb4 both active. I was able to push out another 3-4psi over jb4 map 1 alone. So EC phase 1 doesn't seem to add boost by itself, but it seems to add more boost when paired with the JB4. I don't know if I messed something up, but I find that to be quite weird. I have never been over 28psi with the Jb4 map 1. I can only breach 30psi with EC installed. I'm sure you can do more with map 6, but I'm comparing preset to preset for consistency.

So to clarify everything:

Stock boost: 25psi
EC Phase 1 ONLY: 25-26.5 psi
JB4 map 1 ONLY: 28psi
Jb4 map 1 with EC Phase 1: 31psi

98936
 

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I did some more runs with the revised map 2. Absolutely no CELs at WOT or any issues.
It feels stronger than map 1 at low to mid rpm and about the same at higher rpm.
1/4 mile Dragy run was slightly slower (due to slower 0-60 ft, my fault) than map 1 but with the same trap speed.
Overall very happy with the results.
I will upload the log to N54tech.
Revised Map2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #111
The Giulia runs about 25psi max in stock form. I didn't run logs with phase 2 yet because I just installed it yesterday, but phase 1 didn't really show any boost increase over stock. Maybe 1psi or so. When I initially uploaded Phase 1, it felt incredibly slow compared to the Jb4, so that's why I put it back in and run both. They may have modified the boost to kick in lower down, but my logs BARELY showed additional boost over stock. The jb4 in conjunction with Phase 1 allowed me to see boost levels as high as 31 psi. I truly believe Eurocompulsion is a bit generous with their numbers because the performance felt far inferior to the Jb4 even though the dyno ratings are similar. Not once did I feel like it was better than the Jb4. Believe me, Eurocompulsion works great WITH the Jb4 helping, but it doesn't satisfy me by itself. However, one of the major benefits to Eurocompulsion is it cleans up everything that the Jb4 can't control, and the car 100% drives better with the flash. The EC tune also seems to increase the tolerances for limp mode because it no longer activates while running Jb4 map 2. I had the same problem as you with limp mode kicking in, but it no longer does it since I uploaded the flash.

This is a crappy log because it's only a few seconds long, but it shows some data with EC phase 1 and jb4 both active. I was able to push out another 3-4psi over jb4 map 1 alone. So EC phase 1 doesn't seem to add boost by itself, but it seems to add more boost when paired with the JB4. I don't know if I messed something up, but I find that to be quite weird. I have never been over 28psi with the Jb4 map 1. I can only breach 30psi with EC installed. I'm sure you can do more with map 6, but I'm comparing preset to preset for consistency.

So to clarify everything:

Stock boost: 25psi
EC Phase 1 ONLY: 25-26.5 psi
JB4 map 1 ONLY: 28psi
Jb4 map 1 with EC Phase 1: 31psi

View attachment 98936
Interesting. Be really cool to see what happens with boost between 4k and 6k rpm. Be interesting to see phase 2 boost alone vs jb4 map 2 boost alone too. You could have some fun. I thought about getting ec just for their sport stability control but others told me its not much of a difference. Still might well see


I did some more runs with the revised map 2. Absolutely no CELs at WOT or any issues.
It feels stronger than map 1 at low to mid rpm and about the same at higher rpm.
1/4 mile Dragy run was slightly slower (due to slower 0-60 ft, my fault) than map 1 but with the same trap speed.
Overall very happy with the results.
I will upload the log to N54tech. View attachment 98961
Yeah it feels stronger to me. Be interesting to see your data with 2.0 60ft. Its 90 degrees here nowadays so sucks
 

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The Giulia runs about 25psi max in stock form. I didn't run logs with phase 2 yet because I just installed it yesterday, but phase 1 didn't really show any boost increase over stock. Maybe 1psi or so. When I initially uploaded Phase 1, it felt incredibly slow compared to the Jb4, so that's why I put it back in and run both. They may have modified the boost to kick in lower down, but my logs BARELY showed additional boost over stock. The jb4 in conjunction with Phase 1 allowed me to see boost levels as high as 31 psi. I truly believe Eurocompulsion is a bit generous with their numbers because the performance felt far inferior to the Jb4 even though the dyno ratings are similar. Not once did I feel like it was better than the Jb4. Believe me, Eurocompulsion works great WITH the Jb4 helping, but it doesn't satisfy me by itself. However, one of the major benefits to Eurocompulsion is it cleans up everything that the Jb4 can't control, and the car 100% drives better with the flash. The EC tune also seems to increase the tolerances for limp mode because it no longer activates while running Jb4 map 2. I had the same problem as you with limp mode kicking in, but it no longer does it since I uploaded the flash.

This is a crappy log because it's only a few seconds long, but it shows some data with EC phase 1 and jb4 both active. I was able to push out another 3-4psi over jb4 map 1 alone. So EC phase 1 doesn't seem to add boost by itself, but it seems to add more boost when paired with the JB4. I don't know if I messed something up, but I find that to be quite weird. I have never been over 28psi with the Jb4 map 1. I can only breach 30psi with EC installed. I'm sure you can do more with map 6, but I'm comparing preset to preset for consistency.

So to clarify everything:

Stock boost: 25psi
EC Phase 1 ONLY: 25-26.5 psi
JB4 map 1 ONLY: 28psi
Jb4 map 1 with EC Phase 1: 31psi

View attachment 98936
Hang on here, are you saying you are running the EC tune ( p1 ) and on top you have the JB4? So a piggyback on top of a tune?
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Hang on here, are you saying you are running the EC tune ( p1 ) and on top you have the JB4? So a piggyback on top of a tune?
Sure, folks do a lot on other platforms.

Some ways it can be useful to stack are:

- you want convenient gauges and datalogging capability and run it in stock mode on the tune

- tuner doesnt request enough boost and wont custom tune for you so you can customize boost increases any where in the rev band any amount you want over your tune

- you want to run meth and your tuner cant or wont tune for it. Jb4 can.
 

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Sure, folks do a lot on other platforms.

Some ways it can be useful to stack are:

- you want convenient gauges and datalogging capability and run it in stock mode on the tune

- tuner doesnt request enough boost and wont custom tune for you so you can customize boost increases any where in the rev band any amount you want over your tune

- you want to run meth and your tuner cant or wont tune for it. Jb4 can.
People are way smarter at this than I am, but FWIW, there was more than one occasion (I am not saying excessive) in the Golf R community that people blew their turbos when combining tunes with a piggyback. For the first time on this forum I get to say “Pay to Play”.

Many combinations of modifications over on the VW forums resulted in people complaining that their warranty was voided (officially a TD1) after what was usually a blown turbo and Stage 2 (tune/intake/downpipe). Many understood the consequences, many did not.

Yes I would consider a JB4 or EC tune alone, but not combined. There just isn’t enough data out there about the turbos on these cars and boost. A couple even stated they used the JB4 only for data logging and ended up with a blown turbo but maybe they used it for more.

The one’s that knew the consequences and killed their turbos just bought bigger ones afterwards.
 

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Discussion Starter #116
People are way smarter at this than I am, but FWIW, there was more than one occasion (I am not saying excessive) in the Golf R community that people blew their turbos when combining tunes with a piggyback. For the first time on this forum I get to say “Pay to Play”.

Many combinations of modifications over on the VW forums resulted in people complaining that their warranty was voided (officially a TD1) after what was usually a blown turbo and Stage 2 (tune/intake/downpipe). Many understood the consequences, many did not.

Yes I would consider a JB4 or EC tune alone, but not combined. There just isn’t enough data out there about the turbos on these cars and boost. A couple even stated they used the JB4 only for data logging and ended up with a blown turbo but maybe they used it for more.

The one’s that knew the consequences and killed their turbos just bought bigger ones afterwards.

Yeah should go without saying that if youre experimenting.... you're experimenting and there may be bad consequences particularly if you dont log and know what you're looking for...

...and anytime you flash a file onto the ecu that is not the exact code that is supposed to be there you take a significant risk of your powertrain warranty being voided. Spec/vs actual scans and advanced id functions will show youve done this.
 

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The Giulia runs about 25psi max in stock form. I didn't run logs with phase 2 yet because I just installed it yesterday, but phase 1 didn't really show any boost increase over stock. Maybe 1psi or so. When I initially uploaded Phase 1, it felt incredibly slow compared to the Jb4, so that's why I put it back in and run both. They may have modified the boost to kick in lower down, but my logs BARELY showed additional boost over stock. The jb4 in conjunction with Phase 1 allowed me to see boost levels as high as 31 psi. I truly believe Eurocompulsion is a bit generous with their numbers because the performance felt far inferior to the Jb4 even though the dyno ratings are similar. Not once did I feel like it was better than the Jb4. Believe me, Eurocompulsion works great WITH the Jb4 helping, but it doesn't satisfy me by itself. However, one of the major benefits to Eurocompulsion is it cleans up everything that the Jb4 can't control, and the car 100% drives better with the flash. The EC tune also seems to increase the tolerances for limp mode because it no longer activates while running Jb4 map 2. I had the same problem as you with limp mode kicking in, but it no longer does it since I uploaded the flash.

This is a crappy log because it's only a few seconds long, but it shows some data with EC phase 1 and jb4 both active. I was able to push out another 3-4psi over jb4 map 1 alone. So EC phase 1 doesn't seem to add boost by itself, but it seems to add more boost when paired with the JB4. I don't know if I messed something up, but I find that to be quite weird. I have never been over 28psi with the Jb4 map 1. I can only breach 30psi with EC installed. I'm sure you can do more with map 6, but I'm comparing preset to preset for consistency.

So to clarify everything:

Stock boost: 25psi
EC Phase 1 ONLY: 25-26.5 psi
JB4 map 1 ONLY: 28psi
Jb4 map 1 with EC Phase 1: 31psi

View attachment 98936
Curious if you gave the EC P1 tune a hundred or so miles to allow the ECU to adapt?
 

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Discussion Starter #118
Curious if you gave the EC P1 tune a hundred or so miles to allow the ECU to adapt?
Just an fyi, boost targets and timing targets should be met immediately. Transmissions shifting algorithms and fuel trims adapt iver time. Im always suspect of tuners who tell clients to give it 100 miles to feel power gains. It engages the placebo affect. Oh now i feel the power. Id ask the tuner why the ecu needs 100 miles to meet requested boost and timing targets.
 

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Just an fyi, boost targets and timing targets should be met immediately. Transmissions shifting algorithms and fuel trims adapt iver time. Im always suspect of tuners who tell clients to give it 100 miles to feel power gains. It engages the placebo affect. Oh now i feel the power. Id ask the tuner why the ecu needs 100 miles to meet requested boost and timing targets.
From what I have been told, these are not the classic ECUs that have no learning logic in them. But what do I know, I'm a lowly customer.
 

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Hang on here, are you saying you are running the EC tune ( p1 ) and on top you have the JB4? So a piggyback on top of a tune?
Correct. I have both active at the same time. There's a few reasons why I do it:

1: The JB4 is basically a boost Controller, so I can turn up or turn down boost on demand using map 6, or just completely deactivate additional boost if I don't want it.

2: The JB4 by itself cannot alter every parameter of the power train. Installing the EC tune adjusts and cleans up a lot of the factors that the JB4 has no effect on.

3: The EC tune runs pretty low boost by itself. The JB4 allows you to fill in the gaps.

4. The EC tune disables the rev limiter and limits traction control interference.

I think both systems compliment each other nicely. I do not really run ridiculous or unsafe numbers that would risk damaging anything.
 
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