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I’m interested in getting a tune for my 2.0 what are your experiences with jb4 and Euro+Drive ? What would you buy?
 

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The euro drive is a flasher from eurocompulsion that loads their tune. They were using dimmsport my genius before. Plenty of people like their tune. Pros are you can get features like pops and bangs. Cons are that it makes no more power than a jb4 and if you're under warranty once you flash the ecu you likely lose the powertrain portion.

Jb4 makes good power, removes without a trace, and order it with the bluetooth adapter and you have gauges and a logger as well which is quite useful imo. You can also sell the jb4 for a bit less than you paid for it whereas the eurcompulsion has a $399 transfer fee so you need to sell it for half price.

Mike
 

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I'm actually having the same internal debate myself. It seems that JB4 is the preference of most folks that I have seen. It still worries me, being so new with so few miles, that the dealer will decline warranty claims though regardless of which tune I go with.
 
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Jb4 never changes any of the computer code on the car and boost logs with torque will show same or slightly less than stock. No flash counter information or advanced ID logs will be changed. Just remember to fully remove all traces of it before service. Dont just put it on map zero. Remove it. Takes 10 minutes to remove and maybe 15 to install.

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Jb4 never changes any of the computer code on the car and boost logs with torque will show same or slightly less than stock. No flash counter information or advanced ID logs will be changed. Just remember to fully remove all traces of it before service. Dont just put it on map zero. Remove it. Takes 10 minutes to remove and maybe 15 to install.

Mike
Gotcha, so just map zero and remove the entire module from under the hood before taking it in? Makes sense. Thanks!
 
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There is substantial proof floating around the forums that the JB4 works as described.

EuroDrive... Well there is absolutely no way it makes claimed power, but how much it really makes is still unclear.

Data from the Celtic tune seems to show it makes their claimed power... I might look into that if you really want a flash tune and not a a piggyback.
 

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Jb4. It is the best piggyback there is. Smooth delivery of power, easy to install and remove. No worries about warranty. When you are ready for a real flash tune, come see me for the Squadra tune. No questioning or proving anything with Squadra, you will not find anything to question Squadra. We have partnered with Squadra since 1999. They have tuned way longer than most and know Alfa.

Now if a piggyback is what you desire right now. JB4 all the way. Runs through Can-Bus and plugs into two sensors, not just plugging into 3-5 sensors to manipulate them. The only down to the Jb4? Not much but RPM Limiter is not raises nor is Speed like a flash tune. BT version can be switched on the fly for maps. Clear codes, Log and much more.

All the other boxes are very basic. I run one in mine after trying 3 other basic boxes. They all did the same thing, changed fuel and boost. Driving was not smooth, it was not enjoyable to drive. Jb4 is night and day. Smooth throughout the RPM/power range. No drastic power bursts and loss of power. So at normal driving speeds you have that extra power unlike the other boxes where you don't really have the power until push it harder, then it's WHAM up to redline and nothing. That to me is not done well. This is why I only offer JB4 now and Squadra Flash tunes. They are both done well so the vehicle is drivable in every situation that you may be in. You will be happy with Jb4.

Celtic Tuning, has been around but I have no experience with them. They Claim the correct HP gain that this motor can take @ 324hp.

 

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I 2nd the recommendations for the JB4. Very noticeable power/torque gain, smooth delivery and great tech support from BMS.
I occasionally change to map 0 (stock) just to remind myself how significant the gains are.
 
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All the other boxes are very basic. I run one in mine after trying 3 other basic boxes. They all did the same thing, changed fuel and boost. Driving was not smooth, it was not enjoyable to drive. Jb4 is night and day. Smooth throughout the RPM/power range. No drastic power bursts and loss of power. So at normal driving speeds you have that extra power unlike the other boxes where you don't really have the power until push it harder, then it's WHAM up to redline and nothing. That to me is not done well.
Wait a minute, are you saying there is a replacement for displacement after all?! Hahaha! Excuse me, but given how turbos work, if the JB4 ain’t hittin’ when boost comes on, it’s leaving Hp on the table to deliver that “smooth” driving experience. I mean, what can it do down low deliver more torque? Advance timing? That’s small potatoes. It’s nice for sure, but that doesn’t make Hp, it just shifts the powerband. Putting air in— turbocharging, in this case— increase volumetric efficiency and ergo power, so turbo surge is an inevitable consequence. If you ain’t surgin’ on boost, you’re simply missing out on power.

There just aren’t any tuning scenarios which are possible on a 2.0L turbo engine which make adding pre-boost power possible, but keeping exhaust pressure up and spinning that intake fan does make more power.

Call it “basic” if you will, but it’s physics, and unless you’re saying that JB4 defies the laws of physics, it’s more likely just not optimizing performance, and we see that borne out in the numbers; JB4 does not make the car quicker in most tests, nor faster at the top, than other tuners. JB4 lives in the realm of physical laws as do all others.

This Jason is good at setting the groundwork:

 

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Wait a minute, are you saying there is a replacement for displacement after all?! Hahaha! Excuse me, but given how turbos work, if the JB4 ain’t hittin’ when boost comes on, it’s leaving Hp on the table to deliver that “smooth” driving experience. I mean, what can it do down low deliver more torque? Advance timing? That’s small potatoes. It’s nice for sure, but that doesn’t make Hp, it just shifts the powerband. Putting air in— turbocharging, in this case— increase volumetric efficiency and ergo power, so turbo surge is an inevitable consequence. If you ain’t surgin’ on boost, you’re simply missing out on power.

There just aren’t any tuning scenarios which are possible on a 2.0L turbo engine which make adding pre-boost power possible, but keeping exhaust pressure up and spinning that intake fan does make more power.

Call it “basic” if you will, but it’s physics, and unless you’re saying that JB4 defies the laws of physics, it’s more likely just not optimizing performance, and we see that borne out in the numbers; JB4 does not make the car quicker in most tests, nor faster at the top, than other tuners. JB4 lives in the realm of physical laws as do all others.

This Jason is good at setting the groundwork:

Hes just talking about driveability and boost onset. With the jb4 you have control of boost per rpm range so you can get buttery smooth onset and termination of the boost signal manipulation unlike modules that dont tap into can bus or cam sensors.

So far i believe i have the fastest 1/4 mile time and top trap speed of any stock turbo car on just a map 1 of jb4. This winter ill get into 12s.

The boost is definitely there!!! :)

101403


101404


Mike
 

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Wait a minute, are you saying there is a replacement for displacement after all?! Hahaha! Excuse me, but given how turbos work, if the JB4 ain’t hittin’ when boost comes on, it’s leaving Hp on the table to deliver that “smooth” driving experience. I mean, what can it do down low deliver more torque? Advance timing? That’s small potatoes. It’s nice for sure, but that doesn’t make Hp, it just shifts the powerband. Putting air in— turbocharging, in this case— increase volumetric efficiency and ergo power, so turbo surge is an inevitable consequence. If you ain’t surgin’ on boost, you’re simply missing out on power.

There just aren’t any tuning scenarios which are possible on a 2.0L turbo engine which make adding pre-boost power possible, but keeping exhaust pressure up and spinning that intake fan does make more power.

Call it “basic” if you will, but it’s physics, and unless you’re saying that JB4 defies the laws of physics, it’s more likely just not optimizing performance, and we see that borne out in the numbers; JB4 does not make the car quicker in most tests, nor faster at the top, than other tuners. JB4 lives in the realm of physical laws as do all others.

This Jason is good at setting the groundwork:


Wut da f....?!?
 

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Hes just talking about driveability and boost onset. With the jb4 you have control of boost per rpm range so you can get buttery smooth onset and termination of the boost signal manipulation unlike modules that dont tap into can bus or cam sensors.

So far i believe i have the fastest 1/4 mile time and top trap speed of any stock turbo car on just a map 1 of jb4. This winter ill get into 12s.

The boost is definitely there!!! :)

View attachment 101403

View attachment 101404

Mike
Boost onset is just anoer way of saying leaving power on the table.

Regarding 1/4 mi times, I don’t think the data set is as deep as 0-60mph efforts, so I’d lik to hae a mor comprehnsive look at at what the various systems do before weighting that metric with much credibility. I may be wrong, but I do be around, reading threads and shit, as I’m betting you know.
 

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Wut da f....?!?
If you can explain how JB4 makes Hp off boost, or makes more power than other tuners, go right ahead, because it doesn’t make sense to me as explained and we don’t see that borne out in the numbers.
 

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Boost onset is just anoer way of saying leaving power on the table.

Regarding 1/4 mi times, I don’t think the data set is as deep as 0-60mph efforts, so I’d lik to hae a mor comprehnsive look at at what the various systems do before weighting that metric with much credibility. I may be wrong, but I do be around, reading threads and shit, as I’m betting you know.
As you can see on the graphs above the jb4 boost onset was not just 7lbs higher but at an incredible 2000rpm.

What im referring to is the manipulation of the boost signal. Ive tested a ton of boxes and when you dont have direct control of boost manipulation per rpm you manipulate unevenly where turbo isnt able to spool yet or sometimes it cuts out faster giving you a great 60mph time but falling on its face. Its why you often feel a rubber band type surgy feel with those boxes that dont tap into can bus or cam sensor. Either can work.

I dont consider 60mph times the best indicators of power. Theyre more indicators of traction particularly with 2wd cars. Id suggest for power measurement 60-130mph and 1/4 mile traps as gold standards

If you can explain how JB4 makes Hp off boost, or makes more power than other tuners, go right ahead, because it doesn’t make sense to me as explained and we don’t see that borne out in the numbers.
What numbers? Haven't seen any ec p2 numbers faster than jb4 yet including ec own posted 40-100mph times... not to say they wont or cant post better numbers. Just havent seen any yet in their entire 1800 post thread
 

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As you can see on the graphs above the jb4 boost onset was not just 7lbs higher but at an incredible 2000rpm.

What im referring to is the manipulation of the boost signal. Ive tested a ton of boxes and when you dont have direct control of boost manipulation per rpm you manipulate unevenly where turbo isnt able to spool yet or sometimes it cuts out faster giving you a great 60mph time but falling on its face. Its why you often feel a rubber band type surgy feel with those boxes that dont tap into can bus or cam sensor. Either can work.

I dont consider 60mph times the best indicators of power. Theyre more indicators of traction particularly with 2wd cars. Id suggest for power measurement 60-130mph and 1/4 mile traps as gold standards

What numbers? Haven't seen any ec p2 numbers faster than jb4 yet including ec own posted 40-100mph times
Right...we’re not talking about making something out of nothing; there is only so much that can be done on the software side, and it‘s not a mystical process. Even if JB4 is “reading more books,” it’s flipping the burgers just as good as a high school dropout.

My point is, if the proof ain’t in the pudding, what difference does it make? What’s the basis to assess the JB4 is better? What’s wrong with 0-60 as a performance measure? I think it’s a more useful metric than a standing 1/4 mile in terms of everday usability.
 

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Right...we’re not talking about making something out of nothing; there is only so much that can be done on the software side, and it‘s not a mystical process. Even if JB4 is “reading more books,” it’s flipping the burgers just as good as a high school dropout.

My point is, if the proof ain’t in the pudding, what difference does it make? What’s the basis to assess the JB4 is better? What’s wrong with 0-60 as a performance measure? I think it’s a more useful metric than a standing 1/4 mile in terms of everday usability.
0-60 measures traction. I had a 650hp supercharged Camaro that will get slower 0-60 times than a stock awd giulia 2.0l because on street tires and no prep all it does is spin. Itll trap 125mph though. Itll 60-130mph in prob 8 secs. My giulia spins and has tc intervention off the line too.

On the street an Awd can launch at upwards of 1.2g or more. Thats 0-60. Thats traction.

On the street my giulia can only get around .75g of launch traction. Thats 0-60 too and traction limited not power limited. Add power and you still are only multiplying by the .75g

For this reason 0-60 has never been used as a power metric that im aware of. Its always been trap speeds and 60-130
 

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0-60 measures traction. I had a 650hp supercharged Camaro that will get slower 0-60 times than a stock awd giulia 2.0l because on street tires and no prep all it does is spin. Itll trap 125mph though. Itll 60-130mph in prob 8 secs. My giulia spins and has tc intervention off the line too.

On the street an Awd can launch at upwards of 1.2g or more. Thats 0-60. Thats traction.

On the street my giulia can only get around .75g of launch traction. Thats 0-60 too and traction limited not power limited. Add power and you still are only multiplying by the .75g

For this reason 0-60 has never been used as a power metric that im aware of. Its always been trap speeds and 60-130
Dude, that’s fine, but power is not the same as performance, as you rather obliviously note. It doesn’t matter, in most driving situations, that you have 650hp if a 300hp car accomplishes the tasks the same or better. That’s why racing matters. If traction makes 300hp function better than 650hp with less traction for the shit I o everyday, I want less power.

There is no more common or consequential race than the stoplight drag, which explains why it is the universal, gold sandard, performance metric and has been for decades. Most drivers will never go 80-130mph, full out, in their entire lifetime of driving, but they go 0-60mph several times a day, everyday. Who sprints WOT for a 1/4 mile and why? Very few, I think, and simply for bragging rights, not because it’s actually how they drive around on the daily.

Again, it’s all just a matter of what you want and value, not of what is absolutely better. If you want smooth over quick, fine, JB4 is your unit, I guess.
 

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...I’d lik to hae a mor comprehnsive look...
I thought I was having a stroke for a moment. Either chaad got into the corn again or he's really excited about this subject.


As far as the current debate goes: power is a good measure of power. Everything else is guessing.

Unfortunately, our cars are notoriously difficult to dyno test. When it comes to practicing the power in the real world, a 0-60 can be just as good as a 1/4 mile or 60-100 pull or what have you for seeing results, given other variables are the same. Same tires, same asphalt/pavement, same climate, etc. Comparing different cars using these metrics gets complicated due to all the other variables, but if you take a stock 2.0 Giulia and do some 0-60 times or some 1/4 miles runs, then plug in a flash/piggyback, change nothing else, and do the same tests again, you should see a reflection of the power increase. Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.


To attempt to wrangle this thread back on topic, from what I can tell, most if not all of the available tunes and piggybacks seem to perform well, and there's a lot of different people on this forum running a lot of different setups and are happy with them. It all comes down to preference and opinions. There's a metric fuckton of threads on this very topic to browse and assist you in making a decision.

To throw my two cents in, (if OP is still reading this thread) I'd vote for a piggyback, for reasons stated by @bhvrdr above, as well as the fact that it seems like they work more easily and consistently, going by the threads posted on this forum. Not saying the flash tunes are bad by any means, but the piggyback seems quite a lot simpler to utilize.

It's worth noting, however, that any of the available tunes/piggybacks have the potential to make the car throw codes.
 
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