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Does anybody have experience with aftermarket cold air intakes for the QV? Other than an improved sound, are there appreciable power bumps with any aftermarket intakes out there?
 

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Does anybody have experience with aftermarket cold air intakes for the QV? Other than an improved sound, are there appreciable power bumps with any aftermarket intakes out there?
At this time there have been some prototypes built but nothing that has made production. There are a number of challenges with this intake. It is very complex and that also translates to expensive. Maybe Eurocompulsion will chime in here as they have taken a hard look at it.
 

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Does anybody have experience with aftermarket cold air intakes for the QV? Other than an improved sound, are there appreciable power bumps with any aftermarket intakes out there?
The quadrifoglio is a special kind of beast and there are a few issues with developing an entire intake system for it. First, there are not very many of them. Making getting your hands on one long enough to tear it apart, design a prototype, fit the prototype, test it out in the wild, revise, and repeat a pretty major task. We are also working on a number of other products for the Quadrifoglio right now that are taking priority. One of those happens to be our MAXPower ECM which will give you more of a power increase than any intake system ever will. We've seen upwards of 20% increases on the 2.0L so imagine what something like that can do for your Quadrifoglio.

Once we have those products completed we can move on to something else. Maybe another MAXFlow system or maybe a V-MAXX kit.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no aftermarket intake systems for the Quadrifoglio on the market yet.

We do have BMC drop-in air filters for the Quadrifoglio. We partnered with BMC because they simply are the single best air filter on the market for these cars. If you would like more information about that, feel free to PM, email, or call.

Scott
 

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The quadrifoglio is a special kind of beast and there are a few issues with developing an entire intake system for it. First, there are not very many of them. Making getting your hands on one long enough to tear it apart, design a prototype, fit the prototype, test it out in the wild, revise, and repeat a pretty major task. We are also working on a number of other products for the Quadrifoglio right now that are taking priority. One of those happens to be our MAXPower ECM which will give you more of a power increase than any intake system ever will. We've seen upwards of 20% increases on the 2.0L so imagine what something like that can do for your Quadrifoglio.

Once we have those products completed we can move on to something else. Maybe another MAXFlow system or maybe a V-MAXX kit.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no aftermarket intake systems for the Quadrifoglio on the market yet.

We do have BMC drop-in air filters for the Quadrifoglio. We partnered with BMC because they simply are the single best air filter on the market for these cars. If you would like more information about that, feel free to PM, email, or call.

Scott
I've been experimenting with intake ideas for the QV I've made some prototype tubes I still need to cast into carbon fiber.
 

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I've been experimenting with intake ideas for the QV I've made some prototype tubes I still need to cast into carbon fiber.
That's usually a very bad configuration, as you're sucking in hot air from the engine space in stead of cool outside air .......
 

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I was about to say the same thing. There's no way there's a surplus of cool air at that location. Even though the intake is intercooled, warmer air in means warmer air out regardless.
Agree, the intercooler is basically a water cooled heat exchanger with a limited thermal efficiency. It cannot take out more heat than physically possible and the net thermal delta will remain effectively the same. Especially in the QV where these filters are pretty much on top of the engine and further inwards even though the tubing still directs air towards the filters, the air is likely turbulent at this point of entry in to the filters with the open hot area around it. There is a reason why the engine cover/heat shield is in that location. On the 2.0 perhaps it makes less of a difference as the air filter is right at the front soon after the air intake.
 

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Just to stir the pot (with napkin math), the whole "hot air sources are evil" thing hasn't always made a ton of sense to me, and here's why:

Yes - I totally get it that air above the engine is hotter than air from outside the car due to the engine producing heat and all that. I'd love to know how fast this air is heated, as that air is being replaced by other air. I guess it would be pretty easy to put a thermometer in the engine bay and read that (the remote probe I used yesterday to reverse sear some burgers should do fine).

Based on "internet math" a 2.9L at 7250rpm and assuming 200% VE based on our boost takes something like 700 cubic feet of air per minute (CFM) to sustain. That means every second at peak power, we're consuming 11.6 cubic feet of air. Let's say I'm ingesting that air from above the stock air box, like in the picture in this thread. Oh noes! Hot air! but in the last second, I ate up 11.6 cubic feet of air. I suspect that if I took the volume of the engine bay and subtracted what is taken up by the engine, it's probably around 5-6 cubic feet. Which means I've totally consumed all the hot air in the engine compartment in half a second. Well, last time I checked, nature abhorred a vacuum. So atmospheric pressure is going to help me out by refilling my engine compartment so that I can continue to ingest air. Amazingly, that replacement air is coming from the same source that a "cold air intake" would have gotten it; From outside the engine bay. Where that magical cooler air lives.

And yes, while I'm driving around town, waiting for that M3/4 to magically appear next to me on a straight open road with no other cars around, I'm not consuming 11.6 cubic feet per second, but I'm consuming something. Let's say I'm only cruising around at 1500 rpm (in my 175 cubic inch engine at say 50% VE) so I'm only turning over 0.62 cubic feet of air per second. I'm not sure how much I can heat that up with that rate of turnover. I'll have to consult the meat probe again.

But let's say that worst case is that at idle, I'm able to heat air to "as bad as it can be" when compared to outside air. I feel like I'm taking the hot air hit for less than a second after mashing the throttle? So for some fraction of a second, I'm consuming sub optimal air and making a few less ponies until I'm back to "air that just came in from outside". Measurable in the quarter mile? Maybe.

But Shiny, why would you ever give up that slight advantage? Why make it worse if you don't have to? That's a good question, voice in my head. I'll tell you. I'd only do it if I picked up an increase in airflow. If that increase in airflow due to larger surface area of filters or less restrictive intake path would make up for that initial warmer air, then it'd be bonus airflow (with same temps) for the rest of the run.

Is my logic here totally off? Am I missing something silly? Has thermodynamics failed me?

Now I really want to drive around with that remote temperature probe and see what air temps are up there under various conditions.

Appendix A: the internet sucks for information. HP to CFM calculators ranged from a claimed 350 CFM to support 505hp (I'm pretty sure that's low) up to 7875 CFM (yeah, because we all totally had 8000CFM carbs back in the day...)

[SFI 3.2A/5 suit on]
 

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Just to stir the pot (with napkin math), the whole "hot air sources are evil" thing hasn't always made a ton of sense to me, and here's why:

Yes - I totally get it that air above the engine is hotter than air from outside the car due to the engine producing heat and all that. I'd love to know how fast this air is heated, as that air is being replaced by other air. I guess it would be pretty easy to put a thermometer in the engine bay and read that (the remote probe I used yesterday to reverse sear some burgers should do fine).

Based on "internet math" a 2.9L at 7250rpm and assuming 200% VE based on our boost takes something like 700 cubic feet of air per minute (CFM) to sustain. That means every second at peak power, we're consuming 11.6 cubic feet of air. Let's say I'm ingesting that air from above the stock air box, like in the picture in this thread. Oh noes! Hot air! but in the last second, I ate up 11.6 cubic feet of air. I suspect that if I took the volume of the engine bay and subtracted what is taken up by the engine, it's probably around 5-6 cubic feet. Which means I've totally consumed all the hot air in the engine compartment in half a second. Well, last time I checked, nature abhorred a vacuum. So atmospheric pressure is going to help me out by refilling my engine compartment so that I can continue to ingest air. Amazingly, that replacement air is coming from the same source that a "cold air intake" would have gotten it; From outside the engine bay. Where that magical cooler air lives.

And yes, while I'm driving around town, waiting for that M3/4 to magically appear next to me on a straight open road with no other cars around, I'm not consuming 11.6 cubic feet per second, but I'm consuming something. Let's say I'm only cruising around at 1500 rpm (in my 175 cubic inch engine at say 50% VE) so I'm only turning over 0.62 cubic feet of air per second. I'm not sure how much I can heat that up with that rate of turnover. I'll have to consult the meat probe again.

But let's say that worst case is that at idle, I'm able to heat air to "as bad as it can be" when compared to outside air. I feel like I'm taking the hot air hit for less than a second after mashing the throttle? So for some fraction of a second, I'm consuming sub optimal air and making a few less ponies until I'm back to "air that just came in from outside". Measurable in the quarter mile? Maybe.

But Shiny, why would you ever give up that slight advantage? Why make it worse if you don't have to? That's a good question, voice in my head. I'll tell you. I'd only do it if I picked up an increase in airflow. If that increase in airflow due to larger surface area of filters or less restrictive intake path would make up for that initial warmer air, then it'd be bonus airflow (with same temps) for the rest of the run.

Is my logic here totally off? Am I missing something silly? Has thermodynamics failed me?

Now I really want to drive around with that remote temperature probe and see what air temps are up there under various conditions.

Appendix A: the internet sucks for information. HP to CFM calculators ranged from a claimed 350 CFM to support 505hp (I'm pretty sure that's low) up to 7875 CFM (yeah, because we all totally had 8000CFM carbs back in the day...)

[SFI 3.2A/5 suit on]
Your logic (and napkin math) are solid, I think all you are underestimating is how fast the air heats up in the engine compartment, and how much of a difference a few degrees can make on power. The rule of thumb I've always heard is 10 degrees change of intake temps equals a 1% change in power. It's not perfect, but it's a good approximation. Now, think about that temperatures under the hood can easily get over 200 degrees Fahrenheit on a stopped/slow moving car; or 30+ degrees above ambient on a moving car. You also have to figure in the fact that the filters themselves will get heatsoaked, as well as the intake piping itself, and I could see that adding up to 40 degrees on the actual air entering the turbos, and that's being generous. That's 4% decrease in power, which on a QV is 20 hp!

Now, granted, that's not a huge amount. But, in regards to the post that spawned this conversation, he put time, effort, and money into something that made the car worse, if only by a little bit. Cold air intakes work, plain and simple.
 

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I suspect I am underestimating how fast the engine will heat up air under hood based on air flow. I started to poke around with "how much heat does it take to raise a cubic foot of air 1 degree F" and quickly decided that I can't possibly know how much heat is being radiated by the engine and how much of the air coming off the radiator is going "up vs. down" relative to the engine, so I think (eventually) I'm going to try the remote temp probe approach and finally convince myself how much unnecessary heat is up there. Meanwhile I'll go back to trying to figure out how to replace the accordion connectors on the factory air inlets with something pretty enough to justify the Madness CF tubes just because I think it would look so damn good. I could also see covering the factory pieces in the adjustable CF mesh sleeves and curing that - if I were careful about stopping just a hair shy of the factory couplers it could look really good. But I digress.
 

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Complex and already pretty dang good. With the complexity as noted comes cost. Very few on the road and the likelihood of most Quad owners buying it is slim in my eyes. I believe it would also yield very little so it makes no real sense to produce one.

2.0L much simpler and easier. Although I don't like the 90˙ Bend in the ducting. We are in the works for making one up as well for the 2.0L but I have no interested in the 2.9L. Most will keep it stock and a gain of a few if possible on a 510hp car, well, not sure it's worth much. I agree with Triumph23.
 

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@IdealRace is working on carbon intakes. Not sure how much progress he’s had recently. Another way to go and easier IMO is install meth injection. Should lower temps 70-100 degrees. Add maybe 45-55 whp if dyno tuned. No tune and install should lower temps 50-70 degrees. Not sure about any whp gains but in theory lower temps should increase efficiency. Jb4 can also be added to control meth injections.
some options but aftermarket still a long way to go for significant QV power increases. Removing engine for upgraded or rebuilt turbos pretty much limits things.
 

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Looks like Ideal just started shipping their QV intake, which is that same design of putting open filters up where the factory air box was, albeit with really nice looking CF tubes replacing the factory pipes. The comment that was made which didn't initially occur to me (I'm looking for the FB post from one of the customers who has it now) was that cold air is still being sent back to that location by the "no longer sealed up" intake piping which continues to funnel air back to where the OEM air box used to be. Dyno clamis are 20hp.

here we go, from the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Owners Club on FB.
 

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I'm doing the intake and downpipes at the same time. If I had a trusted Alfa mechanic closer to me, I'd try to do a before/after dyno for intake only.
 

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Looks like a hot air intake to me. I will be very surprised if there is any benefit—more likely a loss—from running that setup.

However, I suspect we will never see any comparisons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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His intake is a pretty similar setup to the factory intake. From the factory, there is ducting underneath the air filter to get it "fresh air."

99828


The factory filter is sealed off.

99829


The main difference with his intake is bigger diameter piping (and smoother bends inside) and two big ass conical filters.

I'm not even gonna pretend like I have the engineering background to know if that makes a difference. I know sc/turbo s2000 guys that just increase intake piping by 1 inch without changing filter material or location and pick up 10-30hp. I am not 100% sold but leaning towards trying one out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've been experimenting with intake ideas for the QV I've made some prototype tubes I still need to cast into carbon fiber.
Any updates as to whether you have intake upgrade for QV?
 
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