[Dave43]

I recently changed my rear 19 inch 5 hole wheels to 9 inch wide. I put on Michelin Pilot sport AS3+ 225/40 the 8 inch in front and 255/35 on the rear. The tires certainly have more grip than the P7's, but the car no longer feels neutral in turns - I notice understeer. The wheels are stock Ti staggered wheels.


Does anyone know if Alfa uses a more robust rear anti sway bar with a staggered setup from the factory, or if camber and toe settings are different?

 

[gsazabi]

I doubt Alfa will use different settings just for staggered option(I could be wrong too, but I doubt it).
More rear grip due to wider tires are definitely contributing to understeer it looks like..
I think adjusting the toe setting will help, but it's worrying to hear this because I was planning on going staggered setup too=\

 

[shanobear]

I recently changed my rear 19 inch 5 hole wheels to 9 inch wide. I put on Michelin Pilot sport AS3+ 225/40 the 8 inch in front and 255/35 on the rear. The tires certainly have more grip than the P7's, but the car no longer feels neutral in turns - I notice understeer. The wheels are stock Ti staggered wheels.


Does anyone know if Alfa uses a more robust rear anti sway bar with a staggered setup from the factory, or if camber and toe settings are different?

I'd like to try to replicate the understeer with my super staggered setup (225 in front and 285 in rear). Any more info on the type of situations you're experiencing understeer? Speed and corner angle will help.

 

[rossocompetizione]

Well in all markets except North America, Giulias with 18' and 19' rims come with differentiated front and rear tyres.There are no all-season or 225 F/R options for the 18' and 19'. The car was developed to have larger rear than front tires with 18' or 19' wheels, Pirelli,Goodyear and Bridgestone were development partners, and the new "2016" Pirelli P Zero and Bridgestone Potenza S001 are the OE tyres for the 4 cylinders Giulias with 19' wheels.

225/45 R18(F)
255/40 R18(R)
OE Pirelli Cinturato P7
OE Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3

225/40 R19(F)
255/35 R19(R)
OE Pirelli P Zero
OE Bridgestone Potenza S001

 

[chaiguy]

Assume we're talking RWD versions only? Are any of the AWD staggered?

 

[inikkor]

Assume we're talking RWD versions only? Are any of the AWD staggered?

Simple answer is no.

 

[Dave43]

Well in all markets except North America, Giulias with 18' and 19' rims come with differentiated front and rear tyres.There are no all-season or 225 F/R options for the 18' and 19'. The car was developed to have larger rear than front tires with 18' or 19' wheels, Pirelli,Goodyear and Bridgestone were development partners, and the new "2016" Pirelli P Zero and Bridgestone Potenza S001 are the OE tyres for the 4 cylinders Giulias with 19' wheels.

225/45 R18(F)
255/40 R18(R)
OE Pirelli Cinturato P7
OE Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3

225/40 R19(F)
255/35 R19(R)
OE Pirelli P Zero
OE Bridgestone Potenza S001

If that is the case, and the European staggered setup exhibits neutral handling, one could assume that the square setup as sold in the US would exhibit over steer.

 

[Dave43]

I'd like to try to replicate the understeer with my super staggered setup (225 in front and 285 in rear). Any more info on the type of situations you're experiencing understeer? Speed and corner angle will help.

I tend to drive hard and have 7 miles of curvy road to get to any stores. With the original square setup I didn't have to work at handling the car. It went were I pointed it. With the new setup it feels like I'm pushing the front end.

 

[John_K_348]

I tend to drive hard and have 7 miles of curvy road to get to any stores. With the original square setup I didn't have to work at handling the car. It went were I pointed it. With the new setup it feels like I'm pushing the front end.

Are you "steering with your right foot?" Try letting some air out of the fronts if you can do it safely. Check pressures and don't get too far out of whack. 360s naturally push into understeer, but are also mid-engined. I added spacers and wider tires up front and it almost neutralized it. But now I have to be careful about my fender lips. They even snag on stock setups.

And are the coil overs adjustable on the Quad? I mean independent of the dna settings. Ride height itself? And the Ti's?

 

[Giovanni Dicesare]

Simple answer is no.

Whats the logic behing that? i too am contemplating 225 front /255 rear on my AWD 19" square setup.

 

[Lowflyer]

I will simply keep the square setup, just replace the tires with P Zero Nero AS 245/40 on 18 lusso wheels, added grip of P Zeros and 20 mm more tire will be just fine for me, car has beautiful neutral feel and just needs more grip, original size P7s just cant cope with power and turning forces

 

[Cassino]

If the understeer feeling is caused by the car being reluctant to rotate early in the turn: Increase front pressures, decrease rear pressures, increase rear toe, check front toe is 0.

Note increasing front pressures will actually cause the front to slide earlier, but it doesn't sound like ultimate lack of grip is your actual problem, rather you want the car to feel more balanced for road driving.

So I'm suggesting the above to increase front cornering stiffness relative to rear, this will cause the car to rotate earlier, which you may prefer.

On track where you're trail braking heavily and at grip limit, you may find the current setup is about right.

 

[tadslc]

I believe to reduce understeer you increase front tire air pressures...

 

[John_K_348]

Or maybe add some ballast to the front of 4cyl cars. People mentioned the car was developed with a staggered set up. It was also developed with a front V6, no?

 

[Giovanni Dicesare]

I will simply keep the square setup, just replace the tires with P Zero Nero AS 245/40 on 18 lusso wheels, added grip of P Zeros and 20 mm more tire will be just fine for me, car has beautiful neutral feel and just needs more grip, original size P7s just cant cope with power and turning forces

What are your thoughts on the minimal height reduction (.3) inches ? Do you think there will be a marked difference in turn in? I wouldnt mind losing a drop of oversteer the car turns in super fast with the current setup.

 

[Giovanni Dicesare]

What are your thoughts on the minimal height reduction (.3) inches ? Do you think there will be a marked difference in turn in? I wouldnt mind losing a drop of oversteer the car turns in super fast with the current setup.

Forgive me I was referring to 245/35 not 245/40

 

[tadslc]

I believe to reduce understeer you increase front tire air pressures...

Excuse me John_K, I had my steers confused, you are correct.

 

[lockem]

Or maybe add some ballast to the front of 4cyl cars. People mentioned the car was developed with a staggered set up. It was also developed with a front V6, no?

Aren't the heavier body parts ballast enough?
Has anybody weighed front and rear axle loading to see if the balance really is anywhere close to the claimed 50-50?

 

[Alan]

Wanted to share my experience, I have a Ti Q2. I had the dealer swap the run flats for Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's. Its a staggered setup with the 9" 255/35 rears and 8" 225/40 fronts. I run the AR recommended tire pressures 35 in the front and 34 in the rear.
I have been gradually working my cornering speeds up, to see whether I get the understeer you are talking about. For me with my setup that is not what I'm experiencing the car feels neutral at least up to 1g. So all I know is the cornering limit is somewhere above 1g and I can't tell you whether its the front or rear thats going to let go first. I think it feels like its going to be the rear.
My personal benchmark is the E46 that I have been driving for years and the cornering in the Giulia is definitely better. It feels like it rolls more but it will happily cary more speed into the turn, pull more g's and allow you to add more power on the exit without perceptible tire scrub. It seems likely that the Giulia's stability system is intervening but if it is, its doing so in a way that I'm not feeling and I don't see indicator lights on the dash. Although I'm not giving the dash a whole lot of attention at those times.

My experience with the test drive in the Giulia Ti AWD on run flats was that the rear let go at surprisingly low g's and there was a perceptible shift of power to the front wheels. At that point the car started to run wider and needed additional steering input to hold the line. I know that that ultimate performance belongs to the AWD but I didn't like this torque vectoring feeling. Its what convinced me that I wanted a Q2 and that it would be worth getting the run flats swapped. I'm glad I did.

 

[Greg Stidsen]

I tend to drive hard and have 7 miles of curvy road to get to any stores. With the original square setup I didn't have to work at handling the car. It went were I pointed it. With the new setup it feels like I'm pushing the front end.

I raced go karts as a kid. No suspension and a live rear axle. The only adjustment was rear track. A narrow track over steered and a wider track under steered. You have probably widened the rear track. I would try adding spacers to the front wheels. It would be a not-too-expensive experiment.