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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some tracking days are wow days, today was one of those.

Really good selection of high-performance high horsepower cars and drivers showed up today.
Camaro RS1 600 hp, Shelby Cobra 660hp, modded Corvette 700 HP, GTR 600 hp, BMW M4, an open wheel racer, and several $200,000 Porsches and a bunch more. And I clearly bested at all of them! The Giulia was clearly one of the fastest if not the fastest car there today and on street tires!

Plus the national Porsche Parade convention is in Spokane this week so a bunch of nice Porsches showed up today too.

Got up to 150mph in the straightaway, that's all I'm going to get on street tires. And I was pulling over 1G in the turns. Display said I got up to 1.2G not bad for street tires.

Another great thing was my new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (300 hardness) tires worked out really well. I finally had a full tracking day driving really hard without wearing my tires out a lot. I think I could get five or six full tracking days out of a new set of tires which is good for tracking really hard.

And Tory from this forum showed up and I was able to give him a hot lap run, he said he was amazed. But now I think it's going to be harder for him to wait for his beautiful new red Guilia now!

I got to admit passing those 911Turbo S and 911 GTS cars was really fun!! I don't think they wanted to see me pass them but eventually they let me. And I actually toyed with them at first as I could've passed them a lot sooner. After the session a couple of the Porsche drivers came up to me and they were hella impressed with our Giulia. Nice people as I have found most Porsche drivers are.

https://youtu.be/CcIObWR01rc

Here's some more videos. Full session videos so kind of long but you can fast forward to whatever car you want to see. Sorry about the rattling noise I'm not sure what that was there's no rattling in the car so must've been the video mount.
https://youtu.be/oMa2nMfgsmg
https://youtu.be/H1hRQ4mZNfA

And here's something interesting. When I took Tory for a ride my gas tank was at 1/4 and when we went over some elevations which caused the cars rear tires to go into the air a bit it must have made the low gas supply to trigger an engine light and put the car into limp mode. I tried it a second time after I clear the code and it did the same thing in the exact same spot at the track. Never did that earlier in the day so it must've been because of the low gas so don't track hard unless you have at least 1/3 of a tank of gas.

At the end of this short video you can hear the car going to limp mode.

https://youtu.be/B2V1MaA3Hvs
 

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Great to see you tracking your QV!
Is this a beginner or intermediate run group?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Great to see you tracking your QV!
Is this a beginner or intermediate run group?
Thanks yes it was a great time. Such a great car in so many ways.

Just open tracking day .with various driver levels. We had 3 groups A, B and bikes. Today there was 2 open wheel cars that showed up so they put them with the A group. That was kind of unusual but they didn't want to have four groups.

I don't think there was any beginners there but possibly as one car was going really slow and one of the open wheel cars had a woman driver going slow in it. Not a big city here so it's kind of casual. And only $100!
 

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Very cool and good for you! $100 is a steal for a track day!

It did seem like there were major differences in skill levels, especially in the Porsche drivers.....

If I could make a suggestion, mount the video behind driver so you have a wider angle and can see the drivers' hands movements on steering wheel and also the positioning of the vehicle in relation to the track. I learned a lot more about my driving and my mistakes from that view.....

Keep on tracking!
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Very cool and good for you! $100 is a steal for a track day!

It did seem like there were major differences in skill levels, especially in the Porsche drivers.....

If I could make a suggestion, mount the video behind driver so you have a wider angle and can see the drivers' hands movements on steering wheel and also the positioning of the vehicle in relation to the track. I learned a lot more about my driving and my mistakes from that view.....

Keep on tracking!
Yeah some of the Porsche drivers were pretty novice. One of the turbo S drivers almost lost it in front of me I think it's on the video. He lifted going over an elevation and the back end squirreled. Good thing he had traction control on. And one of the drivers actually went off course fairly bad but didn't hurt the car. Some of those drivers were actually from Hawaii and they had their cars shipped over for the big national Porsche week here. Lots of Porsche fanatics in town this week.

I have a really nice Vbox HD2 video system in my 4C built into my car that has two cameras one shows the steering wheel as you say. The system in my Giulia is just my iPhone and a cheap TrackAddict app that's fine for my Giulia yes that's my backup track car. Also there is something for having the camera up close to the front of the car as I find the videos are much more exciting as they show the speed
and the other cars movements a lot more.

But I'm thinking the Giulia with some lowering springs (are available now) and the Eurocompulson computer mod which would add another 95 horsepower (600 total hp) that the Giulia could be a quite formidable track car abit expensive to track with tires and brakes. But if one got a second set of wheels and got some racing slicks then it could be more reasonable and even faster. I feel the car has quite a bit potential. And it's kind of fun having a big sleeper car!
 

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Al. What size/profile PS4S did you go for? Did you find ultimate grip was better with the Corsa? Be good to see shots of the PS4S tyre shoulder...well done....
 

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excellent! thanks for sharing. Brilliant to see the QV in its element and great job in representing :D

I'm with BostonDMD on the headrest cam mount (got mine for $20) but great vids nonetheless. I'll finish watching all of these this evening with a fine beer!

100$... **** more places need to do that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Al. What size/profile PS4S did you go for? Did you find ultimate grip was better with the Corsa? Be good to see shots of the PS4S tyre shoulder...well done....
Here's the tire info:
Now:
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (300 hardness)
Ft 265/35/19 rear 26.3" tall (+.5")
Rear 305/30/19 26.3" tall (+.5")

So so far I had the stock size Corsas @60 hardness, then when to the oversize tire I have now but it was the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (180 hardness)
Ft 265/35/19 rear 26.3" tall (+.5")
Rear 305/30/19 26.3" tall (+.5")

Now I have the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (300 hardness)

So went from 60 to 180 to 300 hardness. The softer tires stick more but they overheat so quick and become "greasy" feeling on the track which means they don't grip well and can be ground down to nothing in no time if you keep driving them even not driving them hard. I have found the latest 300 hardness tires seem to be perfect for my aggressive driving style at times with the Giulia. Also these Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are a brand-new tire model so maybe they have some technology magic. Anyway I really like them and they are priced well. But softer tires would be a second or two faster on the track. I did a little drifting for fun and for a photo shot for Tory and they did seem to give some signal before they broke free. But I would have to practice breaking the rear end loose more to do it really well but I'm done blowing through tires, I'll leave that task for someone else lol! But I did light up the rear tires a bit a few times coming out of those two hairpin turns when some powerful high hp V8 cars were behind me. Wanted to show them what a V-6 can do.

I just took some tire photos for you. Also you can see the same size tires on my post on oversized tires. I like the 20 mm wider tires front and rear as it protects the rims against parking curbs and also makes the car handle and look better. No rubbing.
 

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Dottore...my thoughts exactly.... I love my Quad...it is more than capable for any track day...and will certainly stay with most, best some
ALL depending on the other driver's skill level...
ie: me/you/anybody in a Quad vs. SAME skill driver in a 911 GT3RS..or Turbo...we are done....I find it hard to believe that the drivers that the OP drove with were of his same skill level...just saying
 

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Some shots of Call me Al's QV at Spokane.
My 1st time riding in a Giulia of any kind on the track. GOD THAT WAS FUN!! Sorry about the stain in the passengers seat!! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dottore...my thoughts exactly.... I love my Quad...it is more than capable for any track day...and will certainly stay with most, best some
ALL depending on the other driver's skill level...
ie: me/you/anybody in a Quad vs. SAME skill driver in a 911 GT3RS..or Turbo...we are done....I find it hard to believe that the drivers that the OP drove with were of his same skill level...just saying
You are right the QV is a very capable track car. And no I don't think any of the Porsche drivers were that great of drivers nor do I think I am. But I feel I'm better than they were and also it's my home track remember.

Car for car with equal driver skills most of the Porsches would be faster than the Giulia but I feel not as much as most might imagine.

Last winter I took a four-day class at the national Porsche Sport Driving School in Birmingham Alabama at Barber Motorsports Park and we drove most all the current version Porsche cars available except the 918. Surprisingly there's only about three or four seconds difference on that Barber Motorsports track with the same pro driver between all the cars. So that was the Boxster 718, Carrera S, Turbo S and GT3RS. And the Turbo S and the GT3RS are almost tied.

It's really all driver skill and fresh tires that makes the difference.

I think the best matchup was my past video at ORP between me and my friend in the 911 Carrera S. He is a really good driver and his car and mine were almost tied at first. I think he was just a bit faster but as time went on and I overused my tires and they became greasy he definitely was faster. So his Carrera S car weighs 3,300 pounds and is 420 HP.
Giulia is 3,700 pounds and 505 hp. Do the math.

If one steps up to the GT3RS at 3100 pounds and 500 hp you should have a clearly faster car.
And in fact one was at ORP with me about a month ago and he was doing 1:53 laps that are screaming fast. It was stock other than an alignment that gave him 2.75 negative camber which helps a lot. He's been coming to the track for years so he knows it well. I am new to the track and my fastest time in my 4C car was 1:58 but that was my first day there and now I'm driving hard in race mode so I think I could come within a second or two of matching that 1:53 time.

Fastest time in the Giulia was 1:59 but I think I could only take a second or two off that.

But if I got more negative camber and bumped the HP up a bit with a computer tune we might really have a fast track car. I know there are some lowering springs that should bring the camber to about -1%. And the EC tune adds another 95 HP so and I would have 600 HP. Then it might actually stay close to a Turbo S or GT3RS if driver skill is the same. Not sure just my opinion.

The real match up at the SCR track Saturday was that shiny new black 700 HP Corvette with Hoosier racing slicks. We were really close but for some reason he just couldn't make that first big sweeper turn after the long straightaway as good as me. I don't think he knows how to trailbrake. He kept taking that sweeper turn too wide and that's just where I would pass him. And just about a month and a half ago he was at the track with a different Corvette some crazy 800 hp Lingenfelter Corvette. He must really love modded Corvettes! The one he had last Saturday sounded amazing.
Regardless of driver skill levels it's still a lot of fun passing a Corvette like that in a five seater saloon car! As it was passing the 911 Turbo S cars. You can't help from smiling and feeling like Juan Manuel Fangio!! That is until some Mitsubishi Evo with a great driver passes you!
 

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Hi Al. Thanks so much for the tyre data. Its a real shame the PS4S are not available yet in a rear 285/30R19 fitment. I hope they bring the tire out in this size at some stage.

I have been tracking a 991 GT3 for three years. My current track car is a 981 Cayman GT4. I run top of my group (have alot of 911 seat time at the track). I try to get to the track 15-20 times a year usually across 3-4 different tracks.

I am quite keen to try the QV on the track for just one session. I will destroy the front tires if I take it to the track for the day. I would simply be interested to throw my AIM Solo DL head unit n the car and get some telemtric data as I have all my cars CANBUS/OBDII wired with smartycam and would love to know the maximum lateral Gs and Vmax in areas of the track I am already familiar with and have extensive data. The car is fundamentally heavy (compared to other track cars I have owned) so I expect it will be heavy on tires and brakes with the limited front camber particularly.

Of interest my experience has been that changing the camber does not make the car any noticeably quicker - rather it just helps with tyre wear. My GT3 comes with -1.50 F+R from factory and extending this to -2.5 does not make the car any quicker particularly. You may win a little through some sections and loose a little under brakes. The key difference is by spreading the temps across the tire more evenly they stay "on" for longer giving your more consistent lap times etc. But I think you know all that already.

Very keen to follow your progress on track with QV. You are right the only way to increase static negative camber is to lower the car. I believe this has been done by one of our European members and a full geometry revealed around -0.75 at the front improvement with 1" drop in height. The COG will also help. I think a mild upgrade to say 570 bhp and 650nm would be the most prudent path to understand first how good the Giulia QV thermal management is on the track - all though most signs already are that it is very good.

A well driven 911, even my old 993RS which was only 300 bhp, will be as quick (in my direct experience) than a 500 bhp sedan around the track. Weight, turn in and ability to accelerate out of corners due to rear grip are all part of the reason why. Infact an experienced 911 pilot can rotate the car for best effect through the corners. There is also far wider tire choice for 911s (i.e. stickier track rubber such as Trofeo R, Hooters, Hankook Z214 etc) which wil make a big difference at the track. My guess is like you have indicated that the QV is overwhelming (heat) its tyres so quickly that that is leading into understeer during a session pretty quickly and robbing you of turn in and ultimately fast lap times as the tyres loose more and more ability to grip. Its a heavy car with nominal negative camber and its generating alot of lateral force....

Keep up the good work in leading the pack here on tracking the QV mate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Al. Thanks so much for the tyre data. Its a real shame the PS4S are not available yet in a rear 285/30R19 fitment. I hope they bring the tire out in this size at some stage.

I have been tracking a 991 GT3 for three years. My current track car is a 981 Cayman GT4. I run top of my group (have alot of 911 seat time at the track). I try to get to the track 15-20 times a year usually across 3-4 different tracks.

I am quite keen to try the QV on the track for just one session. I will destroy the front tires if I take it to the track for the day. I would simply be interested to throw my AIM Solo DL head unit n the car and get some telemtric data as I have all my cars CANBUS/OBDII wired with smartycam and would love to know the maximum lateral Gs and Vmax in areas of the track I am already familiar with and have extensive data. The car is fundamentally heavy (compared to other track cars I have owned) so I expect it will be heavy on tires and brakes with the limited front camber particularly.

Of interest my experience has been that changing the camber does not make the car any noticeably quicker - rather it just helps with tyre wear. My GT3 comes with -1.50 F+R from factory and extending this to -2.5 does not make the car any quicker particularly. You may win a little through some sections and loose a little under brakes. The key difference is by spreading the temps across the tire more evenly they stay "on" for longer giving your more consistent lap times etc. But I think you know all that already.

Very keen to follow your progress on track with QV. You are right the only way to increase static negative camber is to lower the car. I believe this has been done by one of our European members and a full geometry revealed around -0.75 at the front improvement with 1" drop in height. The COG will also help. I think a mild upgrade to say 570 bhp and 650nm would be the most prudent path to understand first how good the Giulia QV thermal management is on the track - all though most signs already are that it is very good.

A well driven 911, even my old 993RS which was only 300 bhp, will be as quick (in my direct experience) than a 500 bhp sedan around the track. Weight, turn in and ability to accelerate out of corners due to rear grip are all part of the reason why. Infact an experienced 911 pilot can rotate the car for best effect through the corners. There is also far wider tire choice for 911s (i.e. stickier track rubber such as Trofeo R, Hooters, Hankook Z214 etc) which wil make a big difference at the track. My guess is like you have indicated that the QV is overwhelming (heat) its tyres so quickly that that is leading into understeer during a session pretty quickly and robbing you of turn in and ultimately fast lap times as the tyres loose more and more ability to grip. Its a heavy car with nominal negative camber and its generating alot of lateral force....

Keep up the good work in leading the pack here on tracking the QV mate.
Macca, good to hear from a fellow tracker too!!

If you like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires you don't have to wait just buy the sizes I got they're extremely close to stock. Being only 1/2 inch taller doesn't affect anything and normal treadwear can account for that. And only 20 mm wide or works fine on the wheels and there's no rubbing. They look really nice plus makes the car handle a bit better. I really like these Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. Here is the size I bought again:
Ft 265/35/19 rear 26.3" tall (+.5")
Rear 305/30/19 26.3" tall (+.5")

If you're used to tracking a Cayman yes tracking the Guilia will be a big change. Much bigger and much heavier car. But it's really fun and you should try it at least once. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Do you like I did put three or four people in the car and go for a ride around the track it's a hoot!! Especially when you're passing people!!

My 4C is my real tracking car and if all goes well I'll have it for this weekend and will be going to ORP for two full days of tracking. I think after my 4 days of tracking with the big Giulia that i'm going to go crazy driving my 4C. I haven't been able to track the 4C for 1 month due to some problems with it. So when I get it back I'm going to go absolutely bananas tracking a lightweight car again. I think tracking with the heavier car will have helped my driving and I'm going to be really fast in the 4C.

If I do end up tracking with the Giulia more I will get a set of track wheels and tires for it. Probably go to a 19 x 9 square wheel set up and then get some Hoosier slicks.

But it's more than just having a fast car it's also about having a beautiful elegant car that people are interested in. Otherwise we'd all be driving Miatas!!! The Giulia models are all stellar in looks, are unique and people really like them.

I see you like Porsches also. All this week in town is a big national Porsche event. The Porsche parade 2017

https://www.pca.org/event/2017-02-14/porsche-parade-2017-spokane-washington

Never seen so many nice Porsche cars here ever!! You would probably like it a lot. I'm going to go out downtown tonight and hang out with some of them. Maybe recognize a few of them from the track.
Ciao
 

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If you like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires you don't have to wait just buy the sizes I got they're extremely close to stock. Being only 1/2 inch taller doesn't affect anything and normal treadwear can account for that. And only 20 mm wide or works fine on the wheels and there's no rubbing. They look really nice plus makes the car handle a bit better. I really like these Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. Here is the size I bought again:
Ft 265/35/19 rear 26.3" tall (+.5")
Rear 305/30/19 26.3" tall (+.5")
The Michelin PS4S is also available in 255/35-19 and 295/30-19, which is only +10mm wider front and rear.

Either way I agree with Al, they are a great tire and they seem to work really well on the Giulia QV.
 
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