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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First big snowstorm here in eastern canada (25cm of snow).

The traction control loves to intervene at the slightest drift. This kind of removes the fun of winter driving, ie. drifting around corners and pulling 180 slide u-turns, donuts in the parking lot... Yes i know most of you don't do this. But for those of you who know how to drive in the snow, has anyone figured out how to defeat the TC?
 

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There are a number of threads on this topic but the short answer is you can only do it on the Quad by using race mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ya i know the quad has a proper TC button to turn it off.

I was wondering if there was another more makeshift approach.
 

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2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
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As of today, no one has figured out how to defeat TCS/ESC on regular Giulias.
I'm convinced there's a password, probably in Italian.
 
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I wonder if anyone has tried hooking up the QV drive mode selector to a non QV. Instant race mode?... lol (one can dream)
 

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Here's a cousin in the snow today. Nice plate!
 

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So, today I actually had the chance to drive my Giulia base RWD in the first snowstorm we had in Milwaukee.
I have to say that despite the terrible tires (Bridgestone Turanza allseason runflat) it performed really well on a couple inches of snow.
I did have some fun in the parking lot, and even did some moderate donuts. Dynamic mode allows for a little more slippage, even though the goal of the car is still to keep you on track, not making you go sideways.

For all the times that I bashed the electronic stability control, today I was EXTREMELY GRATEFUL to have it. I would have not been able to make it home without it, with these slippery ass tires. They aren't so bad in sub-freezing dry, but in wet and snow... you're doomed. I planned to make them last till summer, but I might ditch them immediately for some real winter tires.
 

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The AWD Ti Sport Giulia has been nothing but fantastic in the snow. Living in one of the top 3 snowiest areas in the country the past several years we have been hammered with 16-20 inches over the past couple days. Very thankful the traction control system and blizzaks. The car does phenomenal! Very impressed. It always keeps me pointed in the direction I'm going, kicking in at the perfect times.
 

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Il Conte, are you perhaps initiating your donut at a "higher" rate of speed, so that you are past the limits of what the tire and as a result TC/SC can compensate for?
Just asking, because virtually everyone else says it can't be done - but they may be starting from zero, hitting the gas .. and having everything kick in to prevent.
 

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hmm, and that thought makes me wonder about the "wicked game ice dance" video alfa posted, then removed, and then reposted. AWD models are used.

the obvious speculation being they had to disable the nannies, a form of special effects to anyone frustrated because they can't.

but if ALL wheels are experiencing the same level of non-traction, does the computer see anything as wrong? 4 tires spinning at the same speed would be OK unless the computer is tied to the speedometer etc etc. of course a RWD model would have front/rear discrepancies, so the stuff would kick in.

someone needs to find a suitably slick and safe surface to experiment.
 

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Alfa Romeo claimed on Facebook that the Giulia and Stelvio did not have their traction and/or stability control disabled.
 

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Alfa Romeo claimed on Facebook that the Giulia and Stelvio did not have their traction and/or stability control disabled.
Said video is now playing on TV as an ad. I saw it last night. Maybe it will get more attention than their other relatively boring ads (especially the Stelvio "elegance" ad). OTOH, the dancing cars ad looks a bit like a winter time version of the M3 spinning circles around a 3 series BMW ad.

It is not entirely obvious in the Alfa ad what the drivers are doing to slide so much, nor what kind of tires are on the vehicles. In some shots it appears that Giulia is in reverse spinning wheels, but that could be an illusion (time aliasing). Of course once sliding sideways on ice with little traction the car will continue to slide independent of any Nannies. There is also the issue that the video consists of several disjointed shorts (very short), making it unclear how long each maneuver actually lasted or if said dance is actually possible and a single fluid motion.

Has anybody checked to see if traction control is disabled while Giulia is in reverse?

Still waiting for my car and for some snow...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"Alfa Romeo claimed on Facebook that the Giulia and Stelvio did not have their traction and/or stability control disabled."

Impossible.

After a few days of driving in snow and overall slippery conditions, i've noticed the traction control kicks in more when the wheel is fully turned, hence preventing donuts and slides around tight corners. The traction kicks in less when going straight or when turning slightly, allowing for some drifting.

It occurred to me that in the non limited slip diff giulias, the traction control is used to stop wheels from spinning by applying brakes. Could this be why we can't turn it off? If we were able to defeat the TC, would this mean that a slipping wheel will just keep spinning and the wheel with traction wouldn't receive much torque?
 

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It occurred to me that in the non limited slip diff giulias, the traction control is used to stop wheels from spinning by applying brakes. Could this be why we can't turn it off? If we were able to defeat the TC, would this mean that a slipping wheel will just keep spinning and the wheel with traction wouldn't receive much torque?
Using the brakes to stop a wheel from spinning is exactly what traction control is. Without LSD or TC, the wheel with the least traction will spin. LSD only works if the wheel with the least traction has some traction or other resistance. With TC and LSD the TC does not need to apply the brake on a spinning wheel very hard to send torque to the wheel with traction.

TC also cuts power from the engine. This may be in part necessary to prevent damage to the differential or overspeeding of the wheel with traction and is likely not as necessary with an LSD. Note that if one wheel is stopped on a differential the other wheel will spin twice as fast as "normal" and that movement is being transfered through the little pinion gears in the differential that are really only designed to spin a little bit as you go through turns (they only have plain, splash lubricated bearings for example).

An old off roader's trick to improve traction and stability on a vehicle with an LSD and manual parking brake is to lightly set the parking brake when driving off road. This ensures that both wheels driven by the LSD see some friction regardless of the available traction. Giulia won't let us do that either :-(

I believe that stability control attempts to skid steer the vehicle in order to rotate the machine to keep it going in the direction that the wheels are pointed. I strongly suspect that stability control is causing much more of the complaints about "it won't rotate in a turn" than traction control. After all "it won't rotate in a turn" is exactly what stability control is supposed to accomplish.
 

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...
but if ALL wheels are experiencing the same level of non-traction, does the computer see anything as wrong? 4 tires spinning at the same speed would be OK unless the computer is tied to the speedometer etc etc. of course a RWD model would have front/rear discrepancies, so the stuff would kick in.
Given that they are indoors, it is apparent that GPS is not involved.
Stability control will look at the steering angle and wants the inside wheels to be turning slower than the outside wheels, plus a slight difference between front and rear wheel rotation rates. Simply having all wheels spinning at the same speed is not enough to prevent stability control from cutting in.

someone needs to find a suitably slick and safe surface to experiment.
Hear-hear! I second the motion.

If nothing else that looks like a whole lot of fun at least if there is enough room to allow for mistakes.

I agree with others that normally you want stability control and traction control enabled. But there are times when it needs to be turned off; especially the "getting moving" after parking and getting "dumped on" situation; and of course in large empty parking lots :grin2:
 

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please do not attempt to explain anything to me, it's really unnecessary and unappreciated
I really have no interest in your out of the blue GPS observations either, whether regarding skating rinks or dynos.
 

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That behind-the-scenes video was very informing! I had no idea the steering was so sophisticated. The steering center geometry changes the more the driver turns the wheel to maintain wheel geometry? Wow. The amount of thought and chassis engineering they put into this car is astounding. And all this for under $50k on average? The more I learn about this car, the more impressed I am with what they've done. SO GLAD I BOUGHT ONE!!
 
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