Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Will FCA be able to replicate the brilliance of the 952 Giulia in future cars?

The Giulia came about because FCA just happened to own Ferrari at that time and FCA's then CEO was Sergio Marchionne who had exacting standards for the Giulia, rejecting several proposed designs before finally approving the current design.

Now that FCA can no longer pick the brains of the Ferrari chassis, steering and powertrain engineers and Sergio Marchionne is retiring, it seems like the critical ingredients which made the Giulia so good are all gone.

This is worrying for the future of FCA : will next gen Giulias or the proposed mid-sized AR sedan be anything as good as the current Giulia?

Discuss....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
Thought provoking post, OP. Your concerns are valid.

Answer: definitely maybe. I hate the thought of it, but you might be right. Though Alfa seems committed to passion & performance the way BMW used to be and in a way only the Italians seem to manage.

The world has gone "SUV all the things" and that puts all sports cars on extinction watch. Great car or not, they are invisible in the marketplace next to SUVs for the masses. That makes them a loosing proposition and vulnerable to the ax at any time. Look at Cadillac making world class sedans like the ATS & CTS, no one even knows they exist!

I say enjoy this "second golden age" of the performance car while you can. So many outstanding choices now for the enthusiast! Get a Giulia while you can and be thankful you had the opportunity to do so. I know I thank my lucky stars when I'm in my Evo surrounded by RAV-4's and Rogues.

All that said though, maybe Alfa catches fire & can create a legacy with the Giulia and Stelvio, a car manufacturer truly committed to performance first. I hope it happens. But then I cringe and read another post complaining about "infotainment" or a "small back up camera". Then I get cynical again and figure all hope is lost, it's only a matter of time...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Thought provoking post, OP. Your concerns are valid.

Answer: definitely maybe. I hate the thought of it, but you might be right. Though Alfa seems committed to passion & performance the way BMW used to be and in a way only the Italians seem to manage........All that said though, maybe Alfa catches fire & can create a legacy with the Giulia and Stelvio, a car manufacturer truly committed to performance first. I hope it happens. But then I cringe and read another post complaining about "infotainment" or a "small back up camera". Then I get cynical again and figure all hope is lost, it's only a matter of time...
Absolutely “funny” observation in a sad sort of way. BMW went through this in the not too distant past when they realized they can continue to make cars that appealed to a certain subset of car buyers; the performance enthusiast.....Orrrrrr they could decide to sell a crap ton of cars (mostly SUV’s) to the masses. When I sold BMW’s I would hear time and again the longer term clientele lamenting all the new comfort and convenience features designed to attract BUYERS en masse.

The reality is an auto manufacturer is a business with spreadsheets and profit tables. Yes, certain brands have a niche in the market, but let’s face it, a +/- $40,000 car isn’t a niche market. I too find it “funny” that people are complaining about the infotainment system and other things not really important to the cars Alfaness. Sign of the times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lowlight

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Will FCA be able to replicate the brilliance of the 952 Giulia in future cars?

The Giulia came about because FCA just happened to own Ferrari at that time and FCA's then CEO was Sergio Marchionne who had exacting standards for the Giulia, rejecting several proposed designs before finally approving the current design.

Now that FCA can no longer pick the brains of the Ferrari chassis, steering and powertrain engineers and Sergio Marchionne is retiring, it seems like the critical ingredients which made the Giulia so good are all gone.

This is worrying for the future of FCA : will next gen Giulias or the proposed mid-sized AR sedan be anything as good as the current Giulia?

Discuss....
Most second gen cars IMHO follow this pattern:



  • Fix one or two technical errors in the previous version.
  • Make it bigger.
  • Make it heavier.
  • Make it less focussed.
  • Make it more expensive.
  • If the original design was already beautiful, make it less beautiful.

You'll notice a lot of these changes are for the purpose of making changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Thought provoking post, OP. Your concerns are valid.

Answer: definitely maybe. I hate the thought of it, but you might be right. Though Alfa seems committed to passion & performance the way BMW used to be and in a way only the Italians seem to manage.

The world has gone "SUV all the things" and that puts all sports cars on extinction watch. Great car or not, they are invisible in the marketplace next to SUVs for the masses. That makes them a loosing proposition and vulnerable to the ax at any time. Look at Cadillac making world class sedans like the ATS & CTS, no one even knows they exist!

I say enjoy this "second golden age" of the performance car while you can. So many outstanding choices now for the enthusiast! Get a Giulia while you can and be thankful you had the opportunity to do so. I know I thank my lucky stars when I'm in my Evo surrounded by RAV-4's and Rogues.

All that said though, maybe Alfa catches fire & can create a legacy with the Giulia and Stelvio, a car manufacturer truly committed to performance first. I hope it happens. But then I cringe and read another post complaining about "infotainment" or a "small back up camera". Then I get cynical again and figure all hope is lost, it's only a matter of time...
The problem is, technology & infotainment is important in cars. CNETonCars has been roasting the auto makers for years over their substandard infotainment and GPS systems.

Audi recognized this, and they're way out in front on that criteria. Sure they're a softer, middling brand than Alfa - but you can't argue they don't provide a superior user experience in terms of ergonomics and technology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
Absolutely “funny” observation in a sad sort of way. BMW went through this in the not too distant past when they realized they can continue to make cars that appealed to a certain subset of car buyers; the performance enthusiast.....Orrrrrr they could decide to sell a crap ton of cars (mostly SUV’s) to the masses. When I sold BMW’s I would hear time and again the longer term clientele lamenting all the new comfort and convenience features designed to attract BUYERS en masse.

The reality is an auto manufacturer is a business with spreadsheets and profit tables. Yes, certain brands have a niche in the market, but let’s face it, a +/- $40,000 car isn’t a niche market. I too find it “funny” that people are complaining about the infotainment system and other things not really important to the cars Alfaness. Sign of the times.
While I truly appreciate the sportiness of Alfa, which ultimately was the main feature that attracted to me the car, I personally do not find it funny that some features are lacking or they are vastly inferior to the competitors. Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here but in my opinion, this should be not an either/or proposition. We are talking about a sport sedan here not an exotic race car where one could justify the missing features by saying that this car is so much performance oriented that a seamlessly working entertainment system or a decent rear view camera is not necessary. People use these cars as daily drivers, they use it commute, to visit their friends and family, to go grocery shopping, and not to drive on the race track most of the time. I really love the car and it drives circles around a BMW or and Audi, so kudos for Alfa making such a great driver's car, but every time I look at the picture of the back-up camera, it makes me think that 5 year old KIA has a better camera, and how I wish that this car would also have something better. That would make the car even more outstanding. I was aware of this when I bought the car and I placed more weight on the sporty driving characteristic, but that doesn't mean that it is not a fair criticism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
402 Posts
Absolutely “funny” observation in a sad sort of way. BMW went through this in the not too distant past when they realized they can continue to make cars that appealed to a certain subset of car buyers; the performance enthusiast.....Orrrrrr they could decide to sell a crap ton of cars (mostly SUV’s) to the masses. When I sold BMW’s I would hear time and again the longer term clientele lamenting all the new comfort and convenience features designed to attract BUYERS en masse.

The reality is an auto manufacturer is a business with spreadsheets and profit tables. Yes, certain brands have a niche in the market, but let’s face it, a +/- $40,000 car isn’t a niche market. I too find it “funny” that people are complaining about the infotainment system and other things not really important to the cars Alfaness. Sign of the times.
I agree with most of what you said, but disagree that you can't have a top or functional infotainment system and a great car. They could have used UConnect, or something similar. Lots of "driver" cars have great infotainment systems.

It will come down to this at the end: can Alfa (or will FCA) make a car that is reliable/lux enough. Doesn't need to be C class level, but the current level of infotainment and serviceability will be the main issues. I think we don't see more Giulia's on the road now because it does not include scheduled maintenance, which is ridiculous for a car with historic reliability issues to come back without. When Jag unleashed the XE, it unleashed a 5 year 50K maintenance plan. It also has a solid dealer network. Some people are (rightly) hesitant buying a car like the Giulia from a former used Dodge, Jeep car lot.

Here is how it can work: All Alfa's should be sold with Maz dealers; included maintenance for first 50K. Sales should skyrocket. Put in an even better infotainment system, and even more sales (perhaps something like the Jag App for Alfa's). Serviceability issues will go way down, and those who lease (the majority of "buyers" in the class) will have known maintenance costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,132 Posts
Thought provoking post, OP. Your concerns are valid.

Answer: definitely maybe. I hate the thought of it, but you might be right. Though Alfa seems committed to passion & performance the way BMW used to be and in a way only the Italians seem to manage.

The world has gone "SUV all the things" and that puts all sports cars on extinction watch. Great car or not, they are invisible in the marketplace next to SUVs for the masses. That makes them a loosing proposition and vulnerable to the ax at any time. Look at Cadillac making world class sedans like the ATS & CTS, no one even knows they exist!

I say enjoy this "second golden age" of the performance car while you can. So many outstanding choices now for the enthusiast! Get a Giulia while you can and be thankful you had the opportunity to do so. I know I thank my lucky stars when I'm in my Evo surrounded by RAV-4's and Rogues.

All that said though, maybe Alfa catches fire & can create a legacy with the Giulia and Stelvio, a car manufacturer truly committed to performance first. I hope it happens. But then I cringe and read another post complaining about "infotainment" or a "small back up camera". Then I get cynical again and figure all hope is lost, it's only a matter of time...
funny you mention Cadillac...they just fired the guy behind the new V cars, pinnacle program & XT4 Mr. Nysschen...and brought in a old guard GM guy to take over.....
who knows what will happen to them now as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Will FCA be able to replicate the brilliance of the 952 Giulia in future cars?

The Giulia came about because FCA just happened to own Ferrari at that time and FCA's then CEO was Sergio Marchionne who had exacting standards for the Giulia, rejecting several proposed designs before finally approving the current design.

Now that FCA can no longer pick the brains of the Ferrari chassis, steering and powertrain engineers and Sergio Marchionne is retiring, it seems like the critical ingredients which made the Giulia so good are all gone.
Well, I think you can rest a little easier on one of these issues. As far as I know, Roberto Fedeli (ex-Chief Engineer of Ferrari) is still the Chief Technical Officer of Alfa Romeo/Maserati. And there still appears to be collaboration and engineering links between Alfa Romeo/Maserati and Ferrari. I doubt we'll see another inter-brand skunkworks approach between the three brands again but I also doubt the ties have been completely severed. Of course, unless someone with inside information knows differently.

Also, Tim Kuniskis, aka "father of the Hellcat," is now running Alfa Romeo/Maserati. That can't be too bad.

As to whether Alfa Romeo's product and brand strategy will ultimately be successful, well, that's a whole 'nuther ball of wax. As we move further into the CUV/SUV/EV era, there may be more people who become bored with the me-too approach most brands appear to be taking. Not necessarily enthusiasts, but those who are intrigued by something different and idea of performance/dynamics. Whether AR can cultivate a healthy niche that can provide the volume it needs to stay viable is the big question. They certainly need some improvement on a few fronts.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
7,789 Posts
Cars are like movies in that sequels are rarely as enjoyable as the original. That said, can anyone think of counterexamples? I'll start by suggesting two, the Mazda Familia/GLC and the Honda Civic.

I'll also ask another question. How many years can the present Giulia go without a significant update? Is Alfa Romeo a brand that can weather long product cycles, or do its cars need to be kept fresh, fresh, fresh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: natnut and lowlight

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
I think the current platform can survive a good 5 year cycle easily(ala Mercedes). The infotainment system can be the Alfa quirk Clarkson says any alfa should have (not the B pillar).
If Porsche can keep the same shape on the 911's for decades, why not the same for a classic looking car like the new Giulia? So, in the looks department, it can stagnate without really hurting the car sales numbers.

Critical will be to increase displacement, or boost to give more POWAH, and wheels that can deliver traction for it. If they do that, we will buy another Giulia after our current Giulia, and others who are staring at boring German cars (yes, I said said that), will gravitate to this now already established platform, that does a better job in the driving dept.

Everything I mentioned above is a bit based on what I see is happening with M3/M4 owners who are jumping ship for the QV. First gen buyers are taking a chance, but if everything pans out like we are hoping, the next round of M/AMG/RS owners will bite.

Lastly - while I do have a $52k Giulia Ti, I wouldn't mind having a "BASE" 400hp Giulia at the same price. Once they figure out a "Veloce S" to fill the gap between the QV and the 2.0L, that will be a huge win.

I just realized how hard it is to verbalize so many thoughts in one post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
The problem is, technology & infotainment is important in cars. CNETonCars has been roasting the auto makers for years over their substandard infotainment and GPS systems.

Audi recognized this, and they're way out in front on that criteria. Sure they're a softer, middling brand than Alfa - but you can't argue they don't provide a superior user experience in terms of ergonomics and technology.
Fair point.

But when buyers start prioritizing items secondary to driving characteristics, then the car enthusiast suffers.

Can't argue with BMW's new approach though - make them softer with better tech and 90% won't care! They're right! And it's led to increased sales. Meanwhile they continue to water down their product, ruin their legacy, and forsake the enthusiast.

I hope Alfa stays strong & stays the course. I'll gladly accept lesser infotainment & the like if it means best in class driving dynamics.

Why auto manufacturers feel the need to compete in tech in the first place I'll never know anyway. Isn't that what phones are for?

Products were on the drawing board ~5 years before they actually go on sale, don't they realize whatever brilliance they had planned will be outdated anyway?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,778 Posts
Well considering how long in advance changes are decided upon, there were probably very good reasons why the car as it was released, had what it had on it. Things like infotainment, speakers, back-up cameras are items easily upgraded. The entire car is not. Sergio knew he had the perfect storm of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and took advantage of it while he could to create the important stuff. The minor parts-bin stuff can be updated later. He made the right choice. Will they be able to continue the magic? Historically, car companies have trouble with follow-up models because fear and loathing take over, and design by committee, polls and focus groups replaces the visionary's vision that created the magic to begin with.

I would do minor refinements including the parts-bin stuff, but keep the basic car for awhile. Things like Eurocompulsion's tune, better camera, etc could be easily added to make noticeable improvements. For those who don't have it, I can't tell you how much better the car is with Eurocompulsion's intake and tune. To be able to make that much of an improvement with just a software update and an intake revision, is huge. 340 hp and the responsiveness really adds to the magic of the chassis. I'd even put some time in on a manual trans option. I know they don't sell as well as automatics, but what a blast this car would be with 340 hp and a 6-speed manual.

If it was me, my number one priority would be the dealer network. Make the dealer experience great, and that would fix the single biggest downside to the success of the car right now. As far as the car itself, I would focus on the interior. Make seats standard with tilt and front bolster adust. Figure out how to make the infotainment system respond quicker. It takes too long to bring up the radio presets. Add voice to the presets, so I can scroll through the stations and hear it tell me either the station number, or the station I.D. so I don't have to take my eyes off the road to glance at the screen. Do things like that to improve the usability experience when you're inside the car.

It's hard to say what they're going to do. Will the new guy have a great vision of what an Alfa is and should be? Hopefully he'll avoid the me-too, trend-du-jour styling paralysis that's affecting so many other marques, which is why they're boring and the Giulia isn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Well considering how long in advance changes are decided upon, there were probably very good reasons why the car as it was released, had what it had on it. Things like infotainment, speakers, back-up cameras are items easily upgraded. The entire car is not. Sergio knew he had the perfect storm of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and took advantage of it while he could to create the important stuff. The minor parts-bin stuff can be updated later. He made the right choice. Will they be able to continue the magic? Historically, car companies have trouble with follow-up models because fear and loathing take over, and design by committee, polls and focus groups replaces the visionary's vision that created the magic to begin with.

I would do minor refinements including the parts-bin stuff, but keep the basic car for awhile. Things like Eurocompulsion's tune, better camera, etc could be easily added to make noticeable improvements. For those who don't have it, I can't tell you how much better the car is with Eurocompulsion's intake and tune. To be able to make that much of an improvement with just a software update and an intake revision, is huge. 340 hp and the responsiveness really adds to the magic of the chassis. I'd even put some time in on a manual trans option. I know they don't sell as well as automatics, but what a blast this car would be with 340 hp and a 6-speed manual.

If it was me, my number one priority would be the dealer network. Make the dealer experience great, and that would fix the single biggest downside to the success of the car right now. As far as the car itself, I would focus on the interior. Make seats standard with tilt and front bolster adust. Figure out how to make the infotainment system respond quicker. It takes too long to bring up the radio presets. Add voice to the presets, so I can scroll through the stations and hear it tell me either the station number, or the station I.D. so I don't have to take my eyes off the road to glance at the screen. Do things like that to improve the usability experience when you're inside the car.

It's hard to say what they're going to do. Will the new guy have a great vision of what an Alfa is and should be? Hopefully he'll avoid the me-too, trend-du-jour styling paralysis that's affecting so many other marques, which is why they're boring and the Giulia isn't.
Very well stated! Good point about corporate risk management killing regular cutting edge progress.
Also agree that a 4WD 340HP 6-Speed is an ideal all year drive train.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Fair point.

...
Can't argue with BMW's new approach though - make them softer with better tech and 90% won't care! They're right! And it's led to increased sales. Meanwhile they continue to water down their product, ruin their legacy, and forsake the enthusiast.

...
does adding a better backup camera make the car softer? It's one thing to say that certain choices have to be made in order to give the car it's athletic prowess. I highly doubt the backup camera is such a compromise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,132 Posts
does adding a better backup camera make the car softer? It's one thing to say that certain choices have to be made in order to give the car it's athletic prowess. I highly doubt the backup camera is such a compromise.
not at all it only makes drivers more incompetent...LOL
people start to depend on things like that 100% and become complacent...can't tell you how many times I've seen people back out of a parking space and you can see they are watching the screen and not their rearview or swiveling their head..:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,132 Posts
Will FCA be able to replicate the brilliance of the 952 Giulia in future cars?

The Giulia came about because FCA just happened to own Ferrari at that time and FCA's then CEO was Sergio Marchionne who had exacting standards for the Giulia, rejecting several proposed designs before finally approving the current design.

Now that FCA can no longer pick the brains of the Ferrari chassis, steering and powertrain engineers and Sergio Marchionne is retiring, it seems like the critical ingredients which made the Giulia so good are all gone.

This is worrying for the future of FCA : will next gen Giulias or the proposed mid-sized AR sedan be anything as good as the current Giulia?

Discuss....
If Alfa truly wants to compete in the US market, they will have to address the dealer network before anything else...
the cars are solid, they have had 1st run issues like EVERY MARQUE...you only hear more about Alfa because frankly the Giulia marked the return to a market they left 25+ years ago with not such a stellar rep. If the network/service were tighter practically all of the issues related here would have been handled faster. YES there were some exceptions where cars experienced very serious issues, but they were the exception not the norm..
Personally I don't believe Alfa will be able to compete with BMW/MERC/AUDI strictly from a production numbers standpoint. They aren't geared up to produce as many cars and as quickly as the big 3 germans. They will be a niche` alternative car much like Jaguar/Volvo are. Again my opinion.
just sayin:wink2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,778 Posts
does adding a better backup camera make the car softer? It's one thing to say that certain choices have to be made in order to give the car it's athletic prowess. I highly doubt the backup camera is such a compromise.
When they were adding that feature, they were probably thinking it would primarily be just a back up camera and pulled one from the parts bin. It may not have occurred to them that people would think of it as that big a deal. It's probably an easy thing to upgrade though, so that might be something we'll see on future models.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
7,789 Posts
Well considering how long in advance changes are decided upon, there were probably very good reasons why the car as it was released, had what it had on it. Things like infotainment, speakers, back-up cameras are items easily upgraded. The entire car is not. Sergio knew he had the perfect storm of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and took advantage of it while he could to create the important stuff. The minor parts-bin stuff can be updated later. He made the right choice. Will they be able to continue the magic? Historically, car companies have trouble with follow-up models because fear and loathing take over, and design by committee, polls and focus groups replaces the visionary's vision that created the magic to begin with.

I would do minor refinements including the parts-bin stuff, but keep the basic car for awhile. Things like Eurocompulsion's tune, better camera, etc could be easily added to make noticeable improvements. For those who don't have it, I can't tell you how much better the car is with Eurocompulsion's intake and tune. To be able to make that much of an improvement with just a software update and an intake revision, is huge. 340 hp and the responsiveness really adds to the magic of the chassis. I'd even put some time in on a manual trans option. I know they don't sell as well as automatics, but what a blast this car would be with 340 hp and a 6-speed manual.

If it was me, my number one priority would be the dealer network. Make the dealer experience great, and that would fix the single biggest downside to the success of the car right now. As far as the car itself, I would focus on the interior. Make seats standard with tilt and front bolster adust. Figure out how to make the infotainment system respond quicker. It takes too long to bring up the radio presets. Add voice to the presets, so I can scroll through the stations and hear it tell me either the station number, or the station I.D. so I don't have to take my eyes off the road to glance at the screen. Do things like that to improve the usability experience when you're inside the car.

It's hard to say what they're going to do. Will the new guy have a great vision of what an Alfa is and should be? Hopefully he'll avoid the me-too, trend-du-jour styling paralysis that's affecting so many other marques, which is why they're boring and the Giulia isn't.
I agree wholeheartedly that the dealer and parts network (spin) present the largest opportunity. Owners should not be weeks for repairs to be executed properly.

Some improvements seem easier to make than they actually are. Anything electrical may depend on the vehicle's architecture, and changing that can be a very big deal. Additionally, the "wall of invention" is often applied to new product development; technologies that haven't been tested sufficiently to be proven reliable are usually avoided. Doubts about availability are another red flag.

While automakers routinely "bet the company" with large investments, they are by-and-large a cautious and risk-averse group. The Giulia is already cutting-edge in many areas. Being cutting-edge everywhere is usually a recipe for doom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: natnut
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top