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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Theres been alot of discussion and confusion as to the proper oil to use in the 2.0l giulia and stelvio.

FCA hasnt made this less confusing as there was a mid cycle change in oil requirements with all cars after 2018 requiring SN Plus rated oil (and now the newest SP) in addition to the ms13340 oil specification that the 2017 and 2018 cars also require.

Original 2017-2018 manuals:

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2019-2021 Manuals:

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Those are some pretty bold letters in the 2019 and 2020 manuals that are basically telling us, YOU BETTER USE SN PLUS RATED OIL OR YOUR ENGINE WILL BLOW UP AND WE'RE NOT PAYING!!!

LOL, well that's paraphrasing but pretty close.

It begs the question of whether something changed about the 2019 and newer engines that require this SN Plus rating.

The answer to that is No
. Its actually the specification of SN Plus that is new not any change to our engine.

SN Plus was introduced in November of 2017 (well after our 2017 cars started production) and SN Plus compliant oils have not started rolling onto shelves until 2018 to 2019. So it makes sense the 2019 manual is the first to require SN Plus... and require it they sure do.

In fact, they have now updated the 2017 and 2018 manuals online to now require SN Plus certified oil as well...

114056




It should also be noted that now the rating SP supercedes SN Plus but is backwards compatible.

Lets dive into SN Plus and why FCA is so adamant about us using it, particularly in our little 2.0l engines.

Certifications like SN Plus (now SP) and equivalent such as ILSAC GF6 share in common FCAs desire to combat Low Speed Pre-ignition (LSPI). General motors dexos gen2 and now gen 3 also now includes testing for lspi as part of their latest certification.

Low Speed Pre-ignition

LSPI has been called the number one killer of small displacement turbocharged engines. Let that sink in. The number one.

You can google LSPI to learn more about it but it basically refers to what layman refer to as "lugging" the engine. Thats when you are at a lower rpm and introduce a significant load via throttle input. With todays 8 speed transmissions that sometimes shift for fuel efficiency this is actually an extremely common occurrence to be lugging the engine a bit. Unless you are driving like Mario Andretti you arent forcing downshifts all the time as you drive in traffic and are likely making most of your commute in low rpm situations.

With LSPI you get Pre-ignition during these low rpm and medium to high load situations. The cause of this is likely multifactorial but ignition of oil droplets is one factor oil companies and car manufacturers have discussed and its the main reason behind the implementation of SN Plus and ILSAC GF-6.

Mitigation of Low Speed Pre-ignition

The oil manufacturers conducted much testing at the request of vehicle manufacturers and found the additive of Calcium in the oils increased the instances of LSPI.

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Calcium is a detergent so you dont just want to take that away without finding an alternative that doesnt contribute to lspi. The oil companies found that magnesium could be substituted and magnesium is netral in that it neither increases nor decreased instances of LSPI.

This is what analysis of 15 comparable SN rated versus SN Plus rated oils look like under chemical analysis...

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It is confirmed that SN Plus rated oils have on average dropped Calcium content from over 2000ppm to 1200ppm. Magnesium is increased from 22ppm to 690ppm.

As a side note, zinc or ZDDP has been found to be an extremely effective LSPI quencher but unfortunately cannot be used in higher amounts due to its damaging effects to catalytic converters.

How this looks in individual oils

Lets look at popular Virgin Oil Analysis of oils we have commonly used.

Here are Pennzoil Euro products that meet SN rating...



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View attachment 104991



Notice the Calcium and Magnesium levels sitting at 1660ppm - 2200pm for Calcium and 10ppm for magnesium.

Here's the factory replacement oil that's being used for all years of 2.0l giulia and stelvio. It is SN Plus rated. Mopar MaxPro+ 0w30

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Here is penzoil platinum 5W-30 that meets SN Plus and MS-13340...

View attachment 104992


Here is the mobil 1 0w30 afe that meets the required sn plus and sp...

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Notice here on all the sn plus and sp oils we have Calcium down in the 942ppm to 1200ppm range and Magnesium up at the 476ppm to 700ppm range.

Hopefully this helps illustrate the reasoning and differences between SN and SN Plus oils and the importance of selecting either a SN Plus, SP or ILSAC GF-6 oil in preventing LSPI.

Oil Selection

Importantly what does this mean for the oils we should be selecting.

Since the updates to the 2017 and 2018 owners manuals, now all years of 2.0l Giulia and Stelvio are to use a 0w30 and SN Plus or SP Certified oil.

This would be ...

Mopar Max Power Plus 0w30 that meets SN Plus and MS-13340 and is the correct multigrade.

Mobil 1 0w30 Advanced Fuel Economy (AFE) meets SN Plus and the latest SP certification.

BMW Twin Power TPT 0w30
API SP - bmw pn 83215a2af99


Knowing what we know about LSPI and FCA extremely strong wording on the use of SN Plus oils it makes sense for this to be your first choice in selecting an oil.

Outside of warranty id be comfortable with any SN Plus or SP rated 0w30 or 5w30 (if not in extreme cold climate).

Mopar Max Power Plus 0w30
Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30
Ravenol HDX 5w-30

For those who are less concerned with the hard to find MS-13340 but want to stay with a high quality SN Plus or SP 0w30 or 5w30 oil there is...

Mopar Max Power Plus 0w30
Pennzoil Maximum Power 0w30
Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30
Ravenol HDX 5w-30
Mobil 1 0w30 Advanced Fuel Economy
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30
Castrol Edge 5w30
Castrol Edge Professional 5w30
Castrol Edge Extended Performance 5w30
LiquiMoly Special Tec DX1 5w30
Motul 8100 Eco-Lite 5w30
Petronas Selenia Perform 5w30
Ravenol DXG SAE 5w30
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30


UPDATE:

We summarized that API SN Plus certified oils were a a stopgap measure to require oils to immediately address low speed pre-ignition by reducing calcium in oils.

API SP certification then came along to cement this LSPI fighting requirement and is complimented by ilsac gf6 testing requirements as well.

Now we can likely look forward to a supplement to API SP in order to address an immediate concern that many API SN Plus and API SP oils are not protecting against LSPI for the duration of a drain interval.

An article from lubrizol may just have sparked an entirely new API SP Plus certification. See it here...




What we are likely to see now is oil formulations with very low calcium. Moderate magnesium and very low to no moly or titanium if we want to see long term lspi protection.

In essence, the testing showed oils with low calcium BUT that also contained either moly or titanium protected against lspi when new but as the engine ages they ni longer protect against lspi.


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Great post.
SP is really the oil to use now. SN Plus was an intermediate specification developed to help prevent catastrophic LSPI while SP was being developed.
Thanks great point.

Not to worry, you are absolutely right SP is a newer spec that encompasses SN Plus and would also be warranty compliant
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I use the mopar max pro plus 0w30 but am considering Pennzoil Maximum Power 0w30 in the future...they may even be the same oil

I use them mostly for warranty compliance not because they are necessarily better or worse than others.

I do use everything from motul to LiquiMoly to mobil1 in others cars.

106323


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I'm not finding any Pennzoil Maximum Power 0w30 in stock anywhere near me or on Amazon, etc. Not sure what tyhe deal is on that stuff.

I am considering using Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W30 in my 2.0 Giulia. It appears to meet API SN+ and API SP (but not the Fiat MS-13340 spec). Anyone using this or have any thoughts for or against? Mobil 1™ 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy | Mobil™ Motor Oils
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not finding any Pennzoil Maximum Power 0w30 in stock anywhere near me or on Amazon, etc. Not sure what tyhe deal is on that stuff.

I am considering using Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W30 in my 2.0 Giulia. It appears to meet API SN+ and API SP (but not the Fiat MS-13340 spec). Anyone using this or have any thoughts for or against? Mobil 1™ 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy | Mobil™ Motor Oils
Great idea. Good choice. The maximum power is available online with walmart but it sells out almost immediately. It restocks once a month or so
 

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@bhvrdr , great thread. I have replied to many of these engine oil threads in the past. Many are full of posts that are mere conjecture and anecdotal experience. I too have been using the MAX PRO SN+ 0W-30 in my late 17 build 2018 Ti Q4. I do my own oil changes and am able to purchase it at cost from the friendly Dealer. A friend, who has a similar Giulia 2.0 takes his to the Dodge Dealer for oil changes. They use the exact MAX PRO oil, and Mopar filter. Last year, 2020, he paid $70.97 out-the-door, for the service. Much better than the $158. that the local Alfa Dealer charges. I will continue to use the MAX PRO until I have a compelling reason to change brands. I change my oil and filter at about 5k intervals at which time I am one notch below full on the electronic "dip-stick". About 8oz, so I have read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah right on. With mopar using mostly pennzoil for their motor oils...unless the max pro plus is a proprietary formulation, which it can be, it may be the pennzoil maximum power which seems to be a great oil and all the jeep multiair guys are now using it.
 

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And here's the 2022 manual....

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So it's time for that oil change again and I was wondering if... and if it's more important for the oil to meet:

1.api SN/SN+/ or SP
2. or is it more important for the ms-13340?
3. Or the 0w-30?
In my case I found the pennzoil platinum 5w-30 which meets the:

Api SP
Ms-13340
But it's 5w-30... so bottom line is can I use this and is it safe to do so??

What abt after warranty? Is it safe to assume anything with API SP rating should be ok to use on our 2.0L engines??

Thanks in advance for any input...
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It must be 0w30 and api sn Plus or api sp according to all updated manuals.

5w30 and 0w30 are actually the same viscosity above negative 22c so if you are in that climate you could technically be fine with that pp 5w30 thst is sn plus or sp but if you want to follow the letter of the law its 0w30.

After warranty it should still be a 0w30 or 5w30 (if in a climate over negative 22c) and sn plus or sp.

If you are involved in motorsports with the car and are looking to consult with engineers and do testing you could ask about an sn plus or sp rated 0w40 but thats a completely different situation.
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We recommend using Mopar® API SP/GF-6A Certified SAE 0W-30 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-13340. Equivalent full synthetic 0W-30 API SP engine oil can be used but must have the API Donut Trademark.
This is what my 2022 owner's manual says. I'd say the two most important things are API SP certification and weight . . . in that order.
 
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