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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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So my mate came past my joint today to take me on a drive on a new M4 convertible xdrive which he is thinking of buying. He tells me to then drive and see what i think. Within 3 corners down the road i tell him, it's too boring. It's too muted, no excitement, down shifts lack theatre which he agrees as he's had, RS4's Mercs and the like. I then take it out of 4 wheel drive mode to see if things change, not much i tell you. We had traction off, everthing dialed up and it just didn't do anything for me. Steering wheel is bigger and thicker than
the QV. Car feels bigger as well. The car does looks good in a dark colour i must say.
I then tell him how about i take you in my 19QV to compare. He couldn't believe the emotion the car gave him and he was only in the passages seat. He quickly decided the M4 is not the car for him.
Friends i tell you, we have a special car that not even this M4 can replicate. Sure it might have a nicer interior but that was probably it. The feeling the QV gives is amazing. It feels lighter, more agile and livelier if that all makes sense. Let's all enjoy them, cause there is not much out there that compares.
 

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Giulia Quadrifoglio MY18
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Haven't driven the new G8x M models, but I would probably agree with your observations. Even though the new M3/M4 is mighty capable and faster on track (M3/M4 has less sophisticated suspension layout, but stiffer setup, and what I found out last week, much more negative camber (from -1° to -2° at the front)), the Giulia Quadrifoglio seems to be the more engaging and enjoyable to drive.
 

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Driving sports and performance cars for over 50 yeas, everything from Triumph's and MG's thru a Cobra and assorted Porsche's, even a GT3, I find my '18 QV drives and handles and just feels like a much smaller car. I have always really valued steering "feel" and "handling", and my QV on bumpy and hilly back roads just feels much smaller. I think Alfa' really did master the suspension on these cars. And the pure power is nice too. I haven't driven the newer M cars, so offer no comparison. Dark M cars look sinister, but an Alfa is just gorgeous. If James Bond was in a car chase, the bad guys would be in an M car, and 007 would be in an Alfa.

NV
 

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2020 Giulia Quattroformaggio, 2020 Stelvio TI Sport
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View attachment 121028
So my mate came past my joint today to take me on a drive on a new M4 convertible xdrive which he is thinking of buying. He tells me to then drive and see what i think. Within 3 corners down the road i tell him, it's too boring. It's too muted, no excitement, down shifts lack theatre which he agrees as he's had, RS4's Mercs and the like. I then take it out of 4 wheel drive mode to see if things change, not much i tell you. We had traction off, everthing dialed up and it just didn't do anything for me. Steering wheel is bigger and thicker than
the QV. Car feels bigger as well. The car does looks good in a dark colour i must say.
I then tell him how about i take you in my 19QV to compare. He couldn't believe the emotion the car gave him and he was only in the passages seat. He quickly decided the M4 is not the car for him.
Friends i tell you, we have a special car that not even this M4 can replicate. Sure it might have a nicer interior but that was probably it. The feeling the QV gives is amazing. It feels lighter, more agile and livelier if that all makes sense. Let's all enjoy them, cause there is not much out there that compares.
Yeah, the dark color mostly hides the hideous grille..
 

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2020 Giulia Veloce (MY19) - 1973 C110 Skyline - 1977 Datsun 810 SSS - 1988 Nissan R31 Skyline
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did he look at the M4 before he agreed to test drive it?

Lucky its a dark colour, it almost hides the buck teeth
 

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Giulia Quadrifoglio MY18
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Tuned M3 running 10.7s. So it def has potential. Handling is prolly not as good as Alfa but that awd is appealing to a lot of people.
As we discussed earlier; even though BMW has (had?) a platform with less sophisticated suspension layout than Alfa at their disposal, I believe they did everything to make it setup in a way for M3 RWD to be faster than Giulia on track (and drag race). Especially with Giulia winning like 90%+ of comaprison reviews (I still think that Giulia Quadrifoglio wreaked havoc to the M badge's image; people still talk to me, this is the one that is faster than the M3, right?). This of course ment BMW had to sacrifice noticable amount of comfort compared to the Alfa, and use more negative camber.

About the engines... They both seem to be very very strong (both of course have closed deck engine block), capable of withstanding over 700hp. If my memory serves me well, Manhart is developing 700+hp versions of both, Giulia and M3. We should be seeing more and more 700+hp tuned G80s now that ECUs have been unlocked/cracked.
When it comes to stock performance, we all know that S58 engine in the M3 produces more than claimed 510 hp; probably around 30hp more. However many reviewers complained about the turbo lag on the new M3; which is kind of expected; the more boost you have the bigger the turbo lag; and both engines have similar displacement, similar turbos (each turbo for each of the 3 cylinders) and similar horsepower; so they should behave accordingly. The main difference is of course I6 vs V6. But is it highly unlikely that one is better then the other. There are only two six cylinder engines on the market currently to outperform them (excluding the Maserati Nettuno engine); Porsche 180° 6 cyl. and Ferrari 120° V6.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As we discussed earlier; even though BMW has (had?) a platform with less sophisticated suspension layout than Alfa at their disposal, I believe they did everything to make it setup in a way for M3 RWD to be faster than Giulia on track (and drag race). Especially with Giulia winning like 90%+ of comaprison reviews (I still think that Giulia Quadrifoglio wreaked havoc to the M badge's image; people still talk to me, this is the one that is faster than the M3, right?). This of course ment BMW had to sacrifice noticable amount of comfort compared to the Alfa, and use more negative camber.

About the engines... They both seem to be very very strong (both of course have closed deck engine block), capable of withstanding over 700hp. If my memory serves me well, Manhart is developing 700+hp versions of both, Giulia and M3. We should be seeing more and more 700+hp tuned G80s now that ECUs have been unlocked/cracked.
When it comes to stock performance, we all know that S58 engine in the M3 produces more than claimed 510 hp; probably around 30hp more. However many reviewers complained about the turbo lag on the new M3; which is kind of expected; the more boost you have the bigger the turbo lag; and both engines have similar displacement, similar turbos (each turbo for each of the 3 cylinders) and similar horsepower; so they should behave accordingly. The main difference is of course I6 vs V6. But is it highly unlikely that one is better then the other. There are only two six cylinder engines on the market currently to outperform them (excluding the Maserati Nettuno engine); Porsche 180° 6 cyl. and Ferrari 120° V6.
I totally agree with your comments and a did notice a massive lag down low when pressing on the throttle on the M4. It didn't feel faster than my QV on the road as we all know it's much faster on a track which
99% of us will never experience.
 

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No one should care about my thoughts and opinion here, but I share it as, in the OP, the QV experience sounds similar to mine.

I can see why folks would like the interior of the M's. For a long time, I thought more tech was better. But I love the simplicity of my '21QV. I absolutely love the green and white stitching. I can't get enough of it. I love the lines of the interior dash much more than the M cars.....or any other car I could conceivably own, for that matter. Related to the interior, if I was on the track 3 days a week and had the time to convince myself I could find the perfect 1 of the 400 different combinations of settings for the steering, transmission, etc, maybe I could go with the M and all those buttons and switches would be worth it......actually no way. I use A for highway, N to go to work each day with the frequent move to D, and I have loved R on the track.....and in a few specific areas around the region where I live. I do wish AR offered more interior leather colors. They exist but can't have them on the QV

As to the exterior, I could go with several exterior colors from Alfa and be really pleased......none of the paint options on the BMW look great to me. The dark does help the BMW grill as mentioned above. Maybe their deep red but the wheels they offer don't work as well with the color and car lines as they do in the Alfa (in my opinion of course). I love my Ocra and could go with Montreal Verde if I didn't have that. I love the Verde Visconti on my wife's stelvio (so sad that is gone). The Etna is great, the Competizione red was lovely.....Misano Blue is interesting. These colors work so well on the Alfa with its lines and wheel options. So many more options that are eye catching but not gaudy. These colors seem to be loved by almost anyone when seen in person. So many compliments.

I did M school for 2 days in 2018. That helped me on the track with my QV now. M2 was fun, M4 was fun. I did love the new M5 but I don't like the look of the exterior lines, and li ike my interior more (see above). That is a beast but I love the lightness of my Alfa more. AWD is appealing but I'm learning to drive without it in the snow (and can steal my wife's stelvio if necessary to get to work). And to all the tech, it was fun in the M cars, but I soon realized I never looked at the HUD while on track; never looked at the speedometer during a hot lap; never tried out all those different combinations of settings. The instructors said, just put everything in sport+ except the steering which should be in comfort.....sounds like D and R in the QV.

I have no idea what would interest me in another brand at this point. Hard to imagine jumping to anything else at the price point or maybe even above it given my need for a daily driver and track car in one.
 

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No one should care about my thoughts and opinion here, but I share it as, in the OP, the QV experience sounds similar to mine.

I can see why folks would like the interior of the M's. For a long time, I thought more tech was better. But I love the simplicity of my '21QV. I absolutely love the green and white stitching. I can't get enough of it. I love the lines of the interior dash much more than the M cars.....or any other car I could conceivably own, for that matter. Related to the interior, if I was on the track 3 days a week and had the time to convince myself I could find the perfect 1 of the 400 different combinations of settings for the steering, transmission, etc, maybe I could go with the M and all those buttons and switches would be worth it......actually no way. I use A for highway, N to go to work each day with the frequent move to D, and I have loved R on the track.....and in a few specific areas around the region where I live. I do wish AR offered more interior leather colors. They exist but can't have them on the QV

As to the exterior, I could go with several exterior colors from Alfa and be really pleased......none of the paint options on the BMW look great to me. The dark does help the BMW grill as mentioned above. Maybe their deep red but the wheels they offer don't work as well with the color and car lines as they do in the Alfa (in my opinion of course). I love my Ocra and could go with Montreal Verde if I didn't have that. I love the Verde Visconti on my wife's stelvio (so sad that is gone). The Etna is great, the Competizione red was lovely.....Misano Blue is interesting. These colors work so well on the Alfa with its lines and wheel options. So many more options that are eye catching but not gaudy. These colors seem to be loved by almost anyone when seen in person. So many compliments.

I did M school for 2 days in 2018. That helped me on the track with my QV now. M2 was fun, M4 was fun. I did love the new M5 but I don't like the look of the exterior lines, and li ike my interior more (see above). That is a beast but I love the lightness of my Alfa more. AWD is appealing but I'm learning to drive without it in the snow (and can steal my wife's stelvio if necessary to get to work). And to all the tech, it was fun in the M cars, but I soon realized I never looked at the HUD while on track; never looked at the speedometer during a hot lap; never tried out all those different combinations of settings. The instructors said, just put everything in sport+ except the steering which should be in comfort.....sounds like D and R in the QV.

I have no idea what would interest me in another brand at this point. Hard to imagine jumping to anything else at the price point or maybe even above it given my need for a daily driver and track car in one.
I love your breakdown, well written analysis.
 

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Not that I'm a g80/82 fan but I wonder if driving the vert (83) took away some of that feel that was missing. Chassis rigidity, etc.
 

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Giulia Quadrifoglio MY18
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No one should care about my thoughts and opinion here, but I share it as, in the OP, the QV experience sounds similar to mine.

I can see why folks would like the interior of the M's. For a long time, I thought more tech was better. But I love the simplicity of my '21QV. I absolutely love the green and white stitching. I can't get enough of it. I love the lines of the interior dash much more than the M cars.....or any other car I could conceivably own, for that matter. Related to the interior, if I was on the track 3 days a week and had the time to convince myself I could find the perfect 1 of the 400 different combinations of settings for the steering, transmission, etc, maybe I could go with the M and all those buttons and switches would be worth it......actually no way. I use A for highway, N to go to work each day with the frequent move to D, and I have loved R on the track.....and in a few specific areas around the region where I live. I do wish AR offered more interior leather colors. They exist but can't have them on the QV

As to the exterior, I could go with several exterior colors from Alfa and be really pleased......none of the paint options on the BMW look great to me. The dark does help the BMW grill as mentioned above. Maybe their deep red but the wheels they offer don't work as well with the color and car lines as they do in the Alfa (in my opinion of course). I love my Ocra and could go with Montreal Verde if I didn't have that. I love the Verde Visconti on my wife's stelvio (so sad that is gone). The Etna is great, the Competizione red was lovely.....Misano Blue is interesting. These colors work so well on the Alfa with its lines and wheel options. So many more options that are eye catching but not gaudy. These colors seem to be loved by almost anyone when seen in person. So many compliments.

I did M school for 2 days in 2018. That helped me on the track with my QV now. M2 was fun, M4 was fun. I did love the new M5 but I don't like the look of the exterior lines, and li ike my interior more (see above). That is a beast but I love the lightness of my Alfa more. AWD is appealing but I'm learning to drive without it in the snow (and can steal my wife's stelvio if necessary to get to work). And to all the tech, it was fun in the M cars, but I soon realized I never looked at the HUD while on track; never looked at the speedometer during a hot lap; never tried out all those different combinations of settings. The instructors said, just put everything in sport+ except the steering which should be in comfort.....sounds like D and R in the QV.

I have no idea what would interest me in another brand at this point. Hard to imagine jumping to anything else at the price point or maybe even above it given my need for a daily driver and track car in one.
I completely agree with you about the desing of both. And while I would like Alfa to give me a bit more customization within the DNA-R modes, the endless possibilities BMW offers is just completely pointless. I think in one of the reviews they calculated all the possible combinations and it was over 3000 or something. But I would appreciate some of the tech from G80 M3 to find its way to the Giulia; especially adaptive matrix LED headlights (not legal in the USA anyway), 360° camera,... Hopefully we will get those with the upcoming face-lift. The front headlights are the weakest part of the design of the Giulia IMO, so a redesign would be welcome.
 

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Interesting because I think the more time goes on and new cars come out, they will compare more to the QV and people will always state that the QV does everything so much better (interior stuff/tech aside). I am a firm believer, based on personal experiences and what you guys base your opinions on, that there will be nothing like the QV ever again. It's not a car for everyone that is for sure, but for the true petrol heads its a pure winner in all performance categories.
 

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I completely agree with you about the desing of both. And while I would like Alfa to give me a bit more customization within the DNA-R modes, the endless possibilities BMW offers is just completely pointless. I think in one of the reviews they calculated all the possible combinations and it was over 3000 or something. But I would appreciate some of the tech from G80 M3 to find its way to the Giulia; especially adaptive matrix LED headlights (not legal in the USA anyway), 360° camera,... Hopefully we will get those with the upcoming face-lift. The front headlights are the weakest part of the design of the Giulia IMO, so a redesign would be welcome.
Absolutely ways to improve. I agree with all you said. I do wish one could modify the settings within the DNA-R modes. That would be a reasonable "meet in the middle."

Maybe put the tech in all the QV's but make anything that adds weight, optional. Haven't thought that through but maybe a way to do it. And it seems like they almost got there with the 2022's as the driver assist package is the primary option and down to $1000. Just put it in all of them for heaven's sake. Then you just decide on how much carbon and your wheels. I wish the dark 5-hole wheels were forged. Technico seems more popular but I love the 5 hole look on this car. I don't think the aggressive look is compromised by the "softer" 5 hole look vs the technicos.

It seems like there are some good renderings of new headlights out there. that would be great.

Knowing how many people come up to me and ask what I'm driving, I imagine most folks don't ever consider AR. I'm guessing they just look at the German options and then maybe it occurs Jaguar is out there as well. I'm guessing most folks don't want what I wanted. I wanted a track/daily driver that could carry 4 people and, admittedly, I wanted to be a little different out there in the sea of white, grey, black and dark blue. I also had exposure to lots of Top Gear, Grand Tour, and other car shows. And M school really helped out.

I decided on the QV before I started configuring and based it on many reviews. I didn't even drive before ordering; there wasn't one in the area. I believe going to M school helped me read and watch the reviews of the options in the class differently and maybe have a clue what they were talking about. I felt I could understand what the differences in the cars would be on the track and that it would be a long time before I was good enough to pick apart the differences....or never would be. Either way, I knew that a drive on the streets around the dealership or in the area would never let me tell a real difference about the cars at the limit (maybe some could but not me with my limited skills and experience). And the configurator needs more real life pics of the Ocra and Verde Montreal in real life. THose renderings don't do those colors any favors. I was nervous having never seen Ocra in person.....so happy though
 

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Giulia Quadrifoglio MY18
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If you are planning to track your car, I strongly recommend GMS camber and castor correction kit, otherwise you will destroy outer edges of the front tyres very quickly. Another benefit would be better grip in the corners, therefore better laptimes. If you set the front camber at -2° camber, it should be daily drivable and track usable. Rear camber is adjustable without any mods. Better pads are another "must do" mod for track use (with heat shields). And ST Springs might be the third mod, but not neccasery.

I actually bought my Giulia for the same reasons as you did. A car that has to transport up to 4 people in comfort on a long yourneys, while at the same time offering me fun at track days. I did all the above mods, except the pads, but I have time till spring/summer when track days will start. I use Classico wheels (5-hole) for summer tyres (Michelin 4S), and Technicos for winter tyres (Michelin PA4), and I will also use Technicos for potential future track days (I have a set of Corsas P Zero for that).

About wheels...
You can actually get forged Classico wheels in 19" for the Giulia; but design itself is taken from Stelvio's 20" wheels. Stelvio 5-hole wheels actually look more agressive and modern, which I like a lot. However they are custom made and therefore expensive, but if I would have 5000€ to spent I would get them...

Links to the mentioned mods:
 
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