Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After 3 attempts to fix the the auto start/stop feature disabling and the service engine light coming on I started to get a "Service Electronic Throttle Control" error, then later a high coolant temp warning followed by loss of all air conditioning. Also went into limp mode multiple times and would not accelerate above 16 MPH. I struggled to get the car to the dealer. Initially they diagnosed a bad spark plug. After ordering the parts and presumably beginning to do the repair, the story changed...

I spoke with the service manager who indicated they had determined fluid from the AC compressor had leaked into the engine and a full engine replacement would likely be needed per Alfa engineering. Parts are on order and they say it will be 7-10 days for the repairs to be complete.

The service person said they had done 'a few full replacements including one Q4' but I'm still concerned. Looking for any thoughts. I love my Giulia. I hate that she's so sick.

2017 Giulia Base
Alfa Rosso
10,500 miles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
That sucks, I have yet to have an engine fail, but really I think you’re missing something in their description...the a/c system is totally isolated from the inner workings of the engine, so I dunno how that would be possible.
Coolant could have entered the engine, causing a failure though.
Either way, I hope they get it sorted for ya.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for your insight. I Had the same thought that the AC system is isolated, so I asked more than once to confirm. I suspect there is a disconnect in communication. Leaking coolant would definitely make more sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,568 Posts
Not to mention there is no fluid in AC system....heat exchangers use gas compression and expansion....if AC was leaking it would be right into atmosphere

Most likely tech had a brain fart and was actually thinking about engine coolant....fact that water temps went up confirms that...once some gasket failed pressure drops and temp increases....engine was probably flooded by coolant which caused fatal damage....even if you didnt drive it to dealer it was probably too late already
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,308 Posts
That sucks, I have yet to have an engine fail, but really I think you’re missing something in their description...the a/c system is totally isolated from the inner workings of the engine, so I dunno how that would be possible.
Coolant could have entered the engine, causing a failure though.
Either way, I hope they get it sorted for ya.
Maybe they meant a coolant leak i.e. a bad head gasket or something leaking coolant into the engine oil?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,313 Posts
I have no idea what they meant, but I expect the car is smart enough to shut off your air conditioning if it is overheating.
but I doubt it's smart enough to turn the heater on.
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,670 Posts
One other forum member had an engine replaced due to coolant leaking into the oil. The engine seizure was preceded by several problems and the dealership failed to diagnose the problem prior to the engine seizing.

Q4 engine replacement is a big job as the whole front of the car has to come apart. I do not think it is as difficult for a RWD.

Fluid is a broader term than liquid. Liquids, gases and I think plasma are all fluids. Furthermore, liquid refrigerant circulates between the condenser (a heat exchanger that converts a hot high pressure gaseous refrigerant into a cooler high pressure liquid refrigerant; in your car this is in front of the radiator) and the evaporator (a combination of a valve that converts the still warm/hot high pressure liquid refrigerant into a low pressure very cold gaseous refrigerant and a heat exchanger that cools air using the very cold gaseous refrigerant; in your car this is inside of the heater box in the dashboard); thus the names of those parts. However, I doubt that the tech was reporting anything about refrigerant getting into the engine or even atmospheric condensate (water sweat) from the evaporator getting into the engine. Although the later would make more sense as a cause for the failure.

The compressor (the only driven part in the refrigerant circuit) compresses the low pressure still cold gaseous refrigerant that comes out of the evaporator and turns it into high pressure hot refrigerant that is sent to the condenser. This pressure increase also forces the refrigerant to circulate. There are of course other pieces to make the system work like a liquid refrigerant accumulator, a dryer (since even tiny amounts of water in the system will make it freeze up and fail) and some means to circulate lubricant for the compressor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
Not to mention there is no fluid in AC system....heat exchangers use gas compression and expansion....if AC was leaking it would be right into atmosphere

Most likely tech had a brain fart and was actually thinking about engine coolant....fact that water temps went up confirms that...once some gasket failed pressure drops and temp increases....engine was probably flooded by coolant which caused fatal damage....even if you didnt drive it to dealer it was probably too late already
There is fluid in the a/c system when it’s working, as the way the system operates is by converting a/c from a gas into a liquid and vice/versa, as well there is probably 5-10 oz of a/c oil.

Regardless, I agree it must have been coolant @ndebiaso, and I’m sure it wasn’t the tech who was mistaken, but the service manager, as sadly they rarely know much about cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,568 Posts
No need tio school me on basic physics....refrigerant is only liquid under pressure, if it is leaking it goes gas all the way....right into atmosphere....and it is most certainly not leaking into the engine
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,670 Posts
No need tio school me on basic physics....refrigerant is only liquid under pressure, if it is leaking it goes gas all the way....right into atmosphere....and it is most certainly not leaking into the engine
My note is for anyone that cares to read it.
Gases are fluids. It is the implied statement that only liquids are fluids that triggered the lecture.

Yes, there is no sensible way for refrigerant to end up in the crankcase oil, in a gaseous state or otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
@ndebiaso,
Please ask the Dealership for a detailed explanation (written, if possible) of what codes were present, and what part(s) failed in your engine that caused irreparable damage such that the entire engine must be replaced.

Was your Giulia included with the other 2017's that had the turbocharger coolant O'ring problem?

Thank you for posting as many details as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,313 Posts
"It is the implied statement that only liquids are fluids that triggered the lecture."

or some people are always looking for something to lecture about, and anything is a trigger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
My note is for anyone that cares to read it.
Gases are fluids. It is the implied statement that only liquids are fluids that triggered the lecture.

Yes, there is no sensible way for refrigerant to end up in the crankcase oil, in a gaseous state or otherwise.
Lockem. Thanks for your note and detailed explanation. I showed it to my husband I also said these guys know their ****. I can’t believe the things i have to learn. I plan to become very literate and I take these explanations and think about them and then pick each element apart and drill into researching its relationships and functionality further. I don’t shoot a lot but my husband does but I could walk circles around most folks that do it as a hobby when it comes to mechanics, calibers, actions, reloading, grains etc. Same with the QV. It is new and interesting. I also want to be literate if there is an issue and making sure I can stand up to a flimsy BS a dealership might give me for why something does not work. So I consider myself getting educated in how the watch was made not just telling time.

So keep educating those of us that really appreciate your detailed explanations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
Since we are still waiting for @ndebiaso to post more information about his engine failure, I don't feel so bad about continuing the off-topic discussion. Mixing fluids and gases in engines are usually problematic. For example, the older Alfa NORD engine, if not properly maintained (proper cylinder head gasket torque-retorque procedures, proper gasket, proper oil control o'ring pins, etc.) would tend to mix the engine oil and engine coolant. When the engine is running, the oil pressure is greater than the coolant pressure and could push oil into the coolant. When a hot engine is shut off, the coolant pressure is greater than the oil pressure and the fluids could go the other way.



Not that I ever saw any problem with this, but I wondered about it. On some models of older Jaguars, I remember seeing that the fuel feed tubes run through a low pressure AC line. I guess the thinking was that low temperature in the freon tube would would cool the fuel before it was delivered to the engine. What if something went wrong? Gasoline in the AC system - Freon in the fuel supply... Hmm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,313 Posts
"more information about his engine failure"
I do believe it is Alfa policy to do engine swaps in the event of most any mechanical issue, so they can check the failed engine themselves. I really doubt they will tell the owner what they found.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top