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Found the Reason for Engine Smell coming thru AC

22K views 47 replies 29 participants last post by  ColumbusGiulia 
#1 ·
When I took my car to the Miller dealership in CT, the technician opened the hood and pointed out the work done to add the seal for the Turbo smell from Engine. He pointed out that the seal doesn't go end to end. So its possible the engine smell can still come in from sides.. He said this doesn't effect the quadrofolio model only q4 and regular models.. When the seal was added the smell did cut down big time, but its still noticeable at times. He said he would open up a star case with Alfa, but he lied. He never opened the case. Now I'm about ready to start litigation against the company. If anyone else lives in the New York region and is having similar issues contact me at remymedranda@gmail.com to see if we can help each other and take Fiat Chrysler to court.
 

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#8 ·
They already did the supposed fix. It's the seal from the image in post #1. And it wasn't a complete fix. It half fixed the problem. I am looking to sue Fiat, Chrysler, and Alfa Romeo Manhattan for not meeting their obligation to keep a loaner. It's in the contract they sign to carry the vehicle that they must have a Giulia Loaner. They refuse to have one. They were forced by Alfa Cares to pay 1 week for BMW X3 from Enterprise. Cost them like $800.

No dealer in our area for that fact has a loaner. The only one who has one is the Miller guys, and you have to have a REALLY good reason for them to give you it. They don't give the loaner out for just anything. Even on days where they promised Alfa Cares I can get a loaner, they lied, and when I arrived they gave me the run around bs, and said my car was fine, and be on my way.

Alfa, Chrysler and Fiat NEED to be sued at this point otherwise they won't do anything, they've proved that already.
If anyone wants to discuss litigation email me at remymedranda@gmail.com

I can easily prove now that they have:

1. Design Defect – This is flaw in the product before it is even manufactured
2. Manufacturing Defect – This flaw occurs after the design and before market introduction

The courts define a defective product as one that is unreasonably dangerous as designed, or the vehicle is not safe for its intended use as designed, or it is more dangerous than an ordinary consumer would expect.

Having engine smells in the interior cabin while driving I'm pretty constitutes a manufacturing defect. I'm not the only person to have dealt with this problem either so it's not just something I'm personally having issues with.

The manufacturer has three options under the law once a defect has been determined: repair, replace or refund. If damages cannot be rectified, then the only option I'm left with is to sue them.
 
#4 ·
Now I'm about ready to start litigation against the company. If anyone else lives in the New York region and is having similar issues contact me at remymedranda@gmail.com to see if we can help each other and take Fiat Chrysler to court.
:surprise:
Is the smell the only problem you are having, or are there other issues that have not been addressed?
 
#5 ·
It's definitely not the only issue, but a MAJOR one. You try driving a car that the cabin smells like engine. Sure in the summer putting the window will solve that, what happens in the winter? Fiat is potentially putting me in danger by driving this vehicle.

Also, after only 4 months on the road, my paint is chipping off my rims. I attached like 4 different zoom levels so you can see that I have not damaged the rim. It's literally the paint just flaking off. Also the brakes squeal in the morning as I pull off when its cold. My "premium" car seems like a **** one when its squealing as I ride away. My Benz C300 never does this. The Miller Tech actually told me that I should here what the Astin Martin guys have to deal with. Those brakes apparently have worse rep then the ones on the Giulia according to him.
 

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#9 ·
Pretty much man, this is why I've had it with them. I've already filed formal complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Now just waiting back for a response.

Now I'm scared to buy a Maserati. Cause I will probably will deal with the same nonsense.

How does a company sell a premium car now a days with out absolute guarantee to their customers a loaner will be available if the car needs to be taken in? These dealerships are getting away with murder by not abiding to their contract obligations. That's why I want to also include the dealership in the lawsuit.
 
#10 ·
Coming from an Engineering Management and QA background (but I am NO lawyer) ,"The courts define a defective product as one that is unreasonably dangerous as designed..." will be a very expensive fight. This will be 2 experts, yours vs theirs, fighting it out. Most of the time the Co. can show that the part was designed to their specs and their specs were not inherently dangerous.

Most of the cases around this have been won with massive amounts of data, i.e. Ford Pinto gas tanks or airbags for Takata. Those companies, Ford/Takata, knew and had the data to prove it...so maybe Alfa knows more than the TSB suggests but willful ignorance isn't illegal most of the time.

Good luck.
 
#12 ·
The problem with ALFA is they allow their dealerships to continue under contract selling their vehicles when they are not in compliance. Technically the Larchmont, and Manhattan dealership near me are under violation of their contract. I had an Alfa Cares representative Elizabeth give me details regarding the dealerships compliance rules. Actually thanks to her, I got Manhattan to give me the Enterprise Loaner.

There are enough documented cases about this issue that it actually won't take much for us to prove the problem.
 
#13 ·
Well the dealer issues may be founded. I will say that I bough the Alfa on a gentlemen's promise that any time I brought my car in I'd get a loaner. I imagined that to be an Alfa or maybe a Fiat - kinda was hoping to get a Maserati from time to time. I usually get an Enterprise loaner which is typically crappier than the car I traded in, which wasn't a bad car, as a loaner.

I'm a bit bummed and feel scammed but YMMV...
 
#14 ·
yes the enterprise loaner is OK, BUT if they don't offer you a PREMIUM vehicle YOU need to get on the phone will Alfa Cares and make sure they give the dealership a call. Hopefully they will put you in a PREMIUM vehicle whenever you need a loaner. I also told the dealership they needed to pay entire months lease! Guess what, They did! Wasn't easy to get them to do, but an email to owner about how many times my vehicle was in for service in the first month of purchase did it. Lets just say it was also like forking over another $800.
 
#28 ·
You got a loaner AND 1 month of free lease? Effectively a car for free for a month, even if it was not the car you bought.

If you corner the dealership into a bad deal for them don't be surprised if they don't treat you well.

If I get stuck driving a loaner, I am more concerned that it be able to deal with where I drive than that it be a premium vehicle. What good would a 2WD Ferrari do me if I need to haul stuff over snow covered roads? Of course the situation is likely different for different people.
 
#17 ·
May I ask whether you are an attorney, Remy?
 
#20 ·
No sir. Contact Alfa Cares and ask any rep. Specifically you can ask to speak to Elizabeth if you want. Anyways just ask anyone of them. It's in the dealerships contract with Alfa Romeo that they must provide a loaner from the dealership OR provide a loaner from a rental company like Enterprise in order for them to carry and sell the vehicle at the dealership. The Manhattan dealership had to pay for 1 week from Enterprise down the street. Cost them $800 bucks! They had to put it on there dealership card not mine. This was to check for the smell coming out of the ac (after the rt update had already been done), and the brakes (the squeal occasionally when its cold and the vehicle sits outside overnight for the first couple of minutes when I first take off)
 
#21 ·
Wow Remy, I'm sorry to hear this. That business with the loaners in the contracts is not cool. But you know, the seal portion could really be finished easily despite the need for the suit. I really wish the tech had gone ahead and paid the 5 bucks for additional seal material and applied it to the gap section indicated in your photo. Really, an adhesive style weather strip could be applied to that empty section on the corner of the cowl. That's just silly, especially since the insulation tape was applied to the hood holes according to the TSB.

Regular tube style cowl gaskets can get tired and sag over time even though they fit completely. On my Miata, a standard long term revamp is to get caulking backer rod foam tube and thread it through the rubber gasket to support it and plump it up. Works great. Super cheap. Easy to do with dish soap and done on your time when you want. Not waiting a month with the runaround and breach of contract. What a pain!
 
#22 ·
I'm paying Chrysler $800 bucks a month for this car. The last thing I feel I should start doing is playing mechanic. At this point, I think the only way I'd get them to find a fix this problem, is thru a lawsuit. They keep trying to treat the situation as done. As a matter of fact, they already closed my initial case for this matter. So in their mind, its resolved!
 
#23 ·
Yes I know. It's awful. I wouldn't expect anyone, including me if it was on an 80 grand Quad to have to do this, but with the blasted hassle of dropping the car off and all that, to someone with the skill, it can be more efficient to do it yourself. BUT, this could also be discussed with the tech, and why they didn't do it themselves, especially after taking the pics and pointing it out, is crazy!
 
#25 ·
My car has been in 2X for service - never an issue with a loaner...once a Giulia, and once a Chrys200. With the Chrys 200 I was offered the option of getting a rental instead... it was only 6 hours so I no biggie. I think YMMV based on dealer. I am using Ferrari/Maser of Seattle and they are fantastic - what they've said is the criteria is 4 hours or more of warranty or paid service work and you get a loaner. A Giulia if available, or if not a rental. For 2 hours or less they let me sit in the F450 on the floor and go "vroom vroom"..

Never had any issues with any dealer on loaners. My wife's Mercedes gets a loaner for any out of warranty work - but when you pay $6k for engine work I guess they should be providing this lol.

Good luck with your situation - seems more like the dealer is jerking you around.
 
#26 ·
OP sounds a little bit overly-dramatic. For some reason, too many new Alfa owners go into their cars almost expecting/seeking to have a bad experience by complaining about little things/annoyances. I’m a very demanding consumer myself, but not a total PIA. Work with another dealership to get the gasket fixed, have the rims repaired, and just enjoy the car. Neither of those items are even worthy of a legal action discussion. Aren’t you the least bit embarrassed to even suggest such a crazy thing???
 
#32 ·
Gotta wonder whether a lawyer who wasn't a friend would accept the case on other than a hourly fee basis. The next Ira Gore?
 
#29 ·
Browns Alfa, Fiat is a great dealer. They asked me if I wanted a loaner and that was for installing my Centerline exhaust and on another occasion the red start button. I am lucky to have a dealer install performance mods. I always hear good things about them from other people.
 
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#30 ·
Alfa Romeo of Omaha has been great, always had a loaner (Maserati, one time a Porsche) waiting for me. Even drove it 30 miles to my house in rural Nebraska so I would not have to drive into Omaha (I am the caregiver for my wife).
 
#31 ·
Hi Remy,

I'm sorry to hear about your ongoing concerns with your Giulia. I was able to locate your VIN using your name and location in our system and can see you currently have an open case with our Alfa Premium Care Team. I have further documented your concerns so your case specialist is aware, if you have any additional questions or concerns please send us a PM for assistance.

Andrea
Alfa Romeo Social Care Specialist
 
#37 ·
what ^^^ said...I agree that when you purchase/lease a premium vehicle you have an expectation of a level of service commensurate with the car.
and I'm not talking about the coffee & snack bar in the service area...:grin2:
@OP clearly you have been to several dealers for this issue, where did you purchase?? Manhattan or Larchmont?
I service mine at Miller and they have always treated me very well and I didn't buy my car there....
 
#36 ·
looking at the picture, I would think the objective is to seal of the air inlet grids for the climate control, which the pictured seal, together with the already present seals, and together with the closed off holes in the bonnet, should do.
So I don't think the technician is right that the seal needs to go end-to-end.....
However, what do I know ;)
 
#38 ·
I saw the same thing. When stopping the vehicle gases can flow in all kinds of directions and under that condition no kind of seal under the hood is going to stop slight whiffs of smells from getting in the car some of the time. The smell could be coming from the car in front of Giulia. The smell could be coming from a fuel oil space heater in a nearby building. The smell could be coming from mold inside the heater box. The engine could be producing excessive fumes due to some malfunction. Perhaps washing down the engine bay is the best first thing to try? Alternatively, find a long steep hill and drive up it at speed (or go for a track day event) to get the engine hot enough to burn off any residue on engine bay components and then see if the smell goes away?
 
#39 ·
I may be able to help a little bit here. I understand that your car already has the cowl seal TSB.

Remy, you should not be smelling anything from the engine compartment. The fact that you are clearly indicates that something is wrong, and I think I know what it is. What you describe as "turbo smell" is likely coolant that's seeping out from the turbo's coolant lines and burning on the turbo. You will never see a leak or drops of coolant anywhere because the leak is really small and it all burns up on the turbo itself. There is actually a TSB for this, but nobody seems to know about it, and changing the coolant seal on the turbo is not a job the dealers are excited about doing. However, I think your car is one of the ones that's leaking. That's really the only explanation I can think of for the smell you are getting. Make your dealer replace the turbo cooling line seals. Again, there is a TSB for this and they should do it without any fuss or argument.

As for the powder coating flaking off the wheels, that looks like it was rubbed off when the tires were mounted. I think those are the made in Taiwan wheels, not Italian wheels, not that it's OK, but generally we don't see this with real Italian wheels.

Greg
 
#41 ·
Interesting thread. Long years ago, had a VW Golf. One morning, made the mistake of making waffles with maple syrup and peanut butter on them for my then 3d grade son before soccer practice. On the way home, he puked it all up in the passenger side of the cockpit. Some of that must have gotten into the HVAC vents, because there after when turning on the heat, the car smelled like maple syrup and peanut butter. My dad told me that back in the '30's, he was driving a car, and hit a skunk which then heated on the exhaust. Had to sell the car.

NV
 
#42 ·
I have a story that involves a 1976 Monte Carlo, a friend’s bachelor party, a night out at the Cheetah 3 in Ft Liquordale, a queasy passenger, a garden hose, and vacuum cleaner (not shop vac). The next day we were driving from Boca Raton to St Petersburg to celebrate Thanksgiving with my Aunt, my wife had to sit on plastic garbage bags because the seats were still wet, and when it started to rain and she rolled up her window, it was , shall we say, streaked with vomit. Sold the car as soon as we got home. Ah, to be young and foolish again.....
 
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