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Someone said that I have said this a dozen of times and here we go again. I think that there is a difference between Alfa Romeo and BMW, Lexus (and AUDI and Mercedes Benz). Alfa Romeo is designed, produced and sold for Alfisti. Alfa Romeo has never had any massive marketing, or even any marketing at all, in its 110 years. The events Alfa Romeo does are Alfisti events and there is an important presence on some very specific and special events like the Concorso Italiano in Monterrey, CA. That is why Alfa Romeo was, is and will be, at its best, a 200,000 cars/yr globally, and Audi, BMW, and Mercedes Benz are 1.8 - 2.3M/cars globally. Alfa Romeo was, is and will be a 10% Niche Brand, compared with those German and perhaps Japanese brands. I think that is the Alfa Romeo model/approach. That is the "marketing level" Alfa Romeo has had for a Century. In addition to that, I think there is zero problems with Reliability, Quality Control, etc. I agree that dealerships' capability and customer service must be improved.

I hope you can Google Translate the texts in this video below. It explains, much better, what I am trying to say above. "... It never gives up. And a true Alfista has not stopped believing in it..."


Click Here.
I don't mind the idea of Alfa Romeo remaining a, as you say, "Niche Brand," I love the idea of being part of some small iconic, cute little, historic, idiosyncratic brand that builds cars some faraway in a little city tuck away in a mountain somewhere in Italy. (I know it's not in the mountains, I just like to picture that in my mind.)

FCA didn't spend a billion euros and wasn't sold the idea of developing and spending that amount of money on the Giorgio platform to remain a small "NIche Brand." And, Sergio Marchionne's expectations were to build more than 200,000 cars per year. It was supposed to rival the German brands. So, as much as I would like to believe FCA's plans were to remain a "Niche Brand," I don't believe that was the plan. FCA wanted to make money by selling as many cars as they could, as all car manufacturers do. Now that the Giorgio platform is paid for, Alfa Romeo will continue to use it as long as they can justify selling the Giulia in its current configuration, with most likely some skin alterations as long as it is even slightly profitable, or even Stellantis loses a couple of bucks to keep the factory workers employed; just as they did by dragging out production of the old spider, and most other models that died a slow death.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Under the Stellatis umbrella, I don't believe Alfa Romeo will be profitable as a car company to remain in the Stellatis group's portfolio. Stellantis will continue to do what they do. Sell cars, which are just number to them. Alfa Romeo will generate a chunk of income for Stellatis, when they sell it to the Volkswagen/Porsche group. I don't believe Stellantis has any intentions of making Alfa Romeo succeed, or not consistent with Sergio Marchionne's vision. Stellantis will tidy up Alfa Romeo and most likely Maserati for sale to get the most money out of the Volkswagen/Porsche guys, who have already expressed a very strong interest in purchasing Alfa Romeo. And, those guys know really know how to resurrect a brand. They did it with Bugatti, and Lamborgini, (another marque that almost died under an older iteration of what has now become Stellantis.) And, the Germans have the resources. I won't be able to afford one when that happens, but the Alfa Romeo brand will live on, with all their history, be marketed correctly, and be profitable. It will of course have German influences. If the Germans are smart, which they are, they will let the Italians design it, and leave the logistic up to the Germans. Wouldn't you rather have Alfa Romeo being part of Volkswagen/Porsche or being part of anything that has to do with Stellantis and be made from a Citroen or a (Push n" Go.) Peugeot?
 
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I don't mind the idea of Alfa Romeo remaining a, as you say, "Niche Brand," I love the idea of being part of some small iconic, cute little, historic, idiosyncratic brand that builds cars some faraway in a little city tuck away in a mountain somewhere in Italy. (I know it's not in the mountains, I just like to picture that in my mind.)

FCA didn't spend a billion euros and wasn't sold the idea of developing and spending that amount of money on the Giorgio platform to remain a small "NIche Brand." And, Sergio Marchionne's expectations were to build more than 200,000 cars per year. It was supposed to rival the German brands. So, as much as I would like to believe FCA's plans were to remain a "Niche Brand," I don't believe that was the plan. FCA wanted to make money by selling as many cars as they could, as all car manufacturers do. Now that the Giorgio platform is paid for, Alfa Romeo will continue to use it as long as they can justify selling the Giulia in its current configuration, with most likely some skin alterations as long as it is even slightly profitable, or even Stellantis loses a couple of bucks to keep the factory workers employed; just as they did by dragging out production of the old spider, and most other models that died a slow death.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Under the Stellatis umbrella, I don't believe Alfa Romeo will be profitable as a car company to remain in the Stellatis group's portfolio. Stellantis will continue to do what they do. Sell cars, which are just number to them. Alfa Romeo will generate a chunk of income for Stellatis, when they sell it to the Volkswagen/Porsche group. I don't believe Stellantis has any intentions of making Alfa Romeo succeed, or not consistent with Sergio Marchionne's vision. Stellantis will tidy up Alfa Romeo and most likely Maserati for sale to get the most money out of the Volkswagen/Porsche guys, who have already expressed a very strong interest in purchasing Alfa Romeo. And, those guys know really know how to resurrect a brand. They did it with Bugatti, and Lamborgini, (another marque that almost died under an older iteration of what has now become Stellantis.) And, the Germans have the resources. I won't be able to afford one when that happens, but the Alfa Romeo brand will live on, with all their history, be marketed correctly, and be profitable. It will of course have German influences. If the Germans are smart, which they are, they will let the Italians design it, and leave the logistic up to the Germans. Wouldn't you rather have Alfa Romeo being part of Volkswagen/Porsche or being part of anything that has to do with Stellantis and be made from a Citroen or a (Push n" Go.) Peugeot?
We will never know about that Marchionne's supposed success. Actually, his great leadership, vision and everything else he had was going to move Alfa Romeo to a supposed 400,000 cars per year globally (a +100% growth). That supposed super achievement was going to represent just a 17% - 22% of the size of those Germans brands. So, even though that is double of the current 200,000 cars/year globally that Alfa Romeo was and will be, it was going to be a Niche Brand, as always. So, once again, the Century old alfa Romeo way is the same way now, with that Marchionne guy and with Stellantis, I think. As I said before, I do not see Alfa Romeo ending in Germany with the VW Group. A you have seen in the videos, the Italians will take over, if necessary. I actually would like to see Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa Romeo all together, in Italy (with some production in Poland) and perhaps, add also both Lamborghini and Pagani to that new company. I do not see either Alfa Romeo made from a Citroen or Peugeot even they will share platforms. It would be like to say that Maserati, Dodge and Jeep are Alfa Romeo's or vice versa.
 

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It would be like to say that Maserati, Dodge and Jeep are Alfa Romeo's or vice versa.
The Giulia uses a Jeep engine (2.0 Hurricane) and a Jeep chassis (Giorgio Washington) ...kidding, but not completely false.
 

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Facts. Even a QV cost same as my f-150 platinum. These are not exotics. They are not high end. Anyone can buy theses cars. Expecting car washes and details after getting a TSB update is comical.
Is exotic only a function of price? If that's the sole criteria, then you're right on point.
 

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The Giulia uses a Jeep engine (2.0 Hurricane) and a Jeep chassis (Giorgio Washington) ...kidding, but not completely false.
Actually
it's not a Jeep engine....The 2.0 GME engines are used in both Alfa and Jeep vehicles.. They are similar but not the same... with the biggest difference being there is no multi air on the Jeep version.
Sometime this year production of engines for use in USA vehicles is supposed to be moved to Indiana but as of now all the engines are built in Italy.
 

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Actually
it's not a Jeep engine....The 2.0 GME engines are used in both Alfa and Jeep vehicles.. They are similar but not the same... with the biggest difference being there is no multi air on the Jeep version. sometime this year production of engines
for use in USA vehicles is supposed to be moved to Indiana but as of now all of the engines are built in Italy
I was kidding. Just saying that there is lot more collaborating outside of Italy than people like to accept. I also know from one thread that there are part differences as well.
 
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Personally(and i realize this might just be me)......I really don't care about how expensive the coffee machine is at the dealer, nor the material of the seats/couch, nor if the salesman is wearing a suit.
FWIW, i want courteous, friendly, competent, and no-BS service. And i dont really care if i get instant-coffee and a fold-out chair to sit on.
A lot of you guys here are quick to dismiss any valid criticism/feedback toward the brand. It is well-documented, including from Alfa execs, that the stuff I'm bringing up are legitimate shortcomings that the brand needs to improve on. I'm not the only one saying this.

Forget about how upscale the dealership looks/feels, Alfa has work to do on the sales experience, service experience, etc. There's too much variability and lack of consistency.
 

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Being foreign or Italian doesn’t make it exotic imo. If so I guess fiat counts. I. would say rarity, price, performance and brand.
I love FIAT! And, in their own way, they sorta march to their own drummer. They gave us the X 1/9. That was kinda exclusive without killing the budget.
The 70s 124 sedan with the twin-cam engine was killer!
Price doesn't have to dictate rarity or exclusiveness, but often, those two do go hand in hand.

The Italians do things differently. The Swedes do things differently. That's what is cool.
The Swedes gave us SAAB and Volvo. Seatbelts, padded sun visors, crush zones, mass-produced turbocharged cars before everyone did the same.
SAAB cars made logical sense, but it goes to show, building a fantastic car, one more functional than most of the competition, will not guarantee success.
It might even be the downfall of a model, as most consumers haven't a clue as to what is behind the gas pedal, in the engine compartment, or under their butts.
 

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Actually
it's not a Jeep engine....The 2.0 GME engines are used in both Alfa and Jeep vehicles.. They are similar but not the same... with the biggest difference being there is no multi air on the Jeep version.
Sometime this year production of engines for use in USA vehicles is supposed to be moved to Indiana but as of now all the engines are built in Italy.
Exactly. I think that is is why, in Stellantis, even using the same platforms, the Citroen's and Peugeot's will not be Alfa Romeo's or vice-versa, like some are suggesting. Yes, they will share one of the four global standard platforms but, they will still be Citroen's, Peugeot's and Alfa Romeo's.
 

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Exactly. I think that is is why, in Stellantis, even using the same platforms, the Citroen's and Peugeot's will not be Alfa Romeo's or vice-versa, like some are suggesting. Yes, they will share one of the four global standard platforms but, they will still be Citroen's, Peugeot's and Alfa Romeo's.
I agree 100%. The interior/exterior design, suspension tuning, steering, RWD-bias and other details should conjure Alfa Romeo to the initiated.
 

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A lot of you guys here are quick to dismiss any valid criticism/feedback toward the brand. It is well-documented, including from Alfa execs, that the stuff I'm bringing up are legitimate shortcomings that the brand needs to improve on. I'm not the only one saying this.

Forget about how upscale the dealership looks/feels, Alfa has work to do on the sales experience, service experience, etc. There's too much variability and lack of consistency.
I’m not dismissing criticism of dealers. Far from it. I’m just not impressed with the “dog and pony show”. I’d rather have competence and no-BS, and then ill be on my happy way.

Id rather Alfa Romeo focus on competence & courtesy, rather than all the “showy stuff”.

Get a Maserati for the “fancy”/luxury experience. ;)
 

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The Giulia feels the way it does because it is all Alfa Romeo. Obviously, the chassis is where it all starts, and the Giorgio platform is genius.
Without world-class underpinnings, and Stellantis has nothing like the Giorgio platform in its stables... electric or otherwise, well, you got a just something to hold up the cabin.
Then instead of using struts, like everyone else does, because they are less expensive, the Giulia has beautiful A-arms with some pretty heady design and geometry.
No cost-cutting on those designs. It's the most expensive way to build a car. Porsche has only this year started to use A-arms on some of their most expensive 911 models.

There are some car companies out there with employees who are car nuts, but their voices aren't heard, and they are usually overruled by the bean-counters.
We are lucky Sergio Marchionne came along when he did, and his voice was heard. Sergio was the man! There wasn't any compromise on making sure the Giulia was the best driving car in its class, and even out of its class. Exactly what I wanted.

Alfa Romeo could have given me a car more like my 1995 M3. It didn't have a sunroof (special order) no power seats, only power window, and on a two-door car, and I wouldn't have minded skipping those either. Just a great chassis, great brakes, great engine, and no electronic dodads... nothing broke. The Giulia was as close as I could come in a modern car. A 6 speed would have been perfect for me, but I understand a stick shift today has hardly any takers even among enthusiasts. You may find several cars which have more options and gizmos to play while driving, but nothing is as pure, for sheer driving pleasure, and what Sergio and Alfa Romeo pulled off in building us our Giulia.
 

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The Giulia feels the way it does because it is all Alfa Romeo. Obviously, the chassis is where it all starts, and the Giorgio platform is genius.
Without world-class underpinnings, and Stellantis has nothing like the Giorgio platform in its stables... electric or otherwise, well, you got a just something to hold up the cabin.
Then instead of using struts, like everyone else does, because they are less expensive, the Giulia has beautiful A-arms with some pretty heady design and geometry.
No cost-cutting on those designs. It's the most expensive way to build a car. Porsche has only this year started to use A-arms on some of their most expensive 911 models.

There are some car companies out there with employees who are car nuts, but their voices are heard, and they are usually overruled by the bean-counters.
We are lucky Sergio Marchionne came along when he did, and his voice was heard. Sergio was the man. There wasn't any compromise on making sure the Giulia was the best driving car in its class, and even out of its class. Exactly what I wanted.

Alfa Romeo could have given me a car more like my 1995 M3. It didn't have a sunroof (special order) no power seats, only power window, and on a two-door car, and I wouldn't have minded skipping those either. Just a great chassis, great brakes, great engine, and no electronic dodads... nothing broke. The Giulia was as close as I could come in a modern car. A 6 speed would have been perfect for me, but I understand a stick shift today has hardly any takers even among enthusiasts. You may find several cars which have more options and gizmos to play while driving, but nothing is as pure, for sheer driving pleasure, and what Sergio pulled off in building us our Giulia.
There are enthusiasts at every car company. Witness the Viper. Some car nuts are better at advocating their position, and some companies are better at listening. Hyundai/Kia/Genesis seems to be doing it and reaping the rewards.

What makes the Giulia special for me is its feel. In this case the hardware produced the desired result. When I replaced my 1984 Saab 900 with a 1989 Saab 9000, the driving field was totally different. The 9000’s struts couldn’t mimic the result the 900’s arms yielded. The 9000 was my last Saab.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
I don't mind the idea of Alfa Romeo remaining a, as you say, "Niche Brand," I love the idea of being part of some small iconic, cute little, historic, idiosyncratic brand that builds cars some faraway in a little city tuck away in a mountain somewhere in Italy. (I know it's not in the mountains, I just like to picture that in my mind.)

FCA didn't spend a billion euros and wasn't sold the idea of developing and spending that amount of money on the Giorgio platform to remain a small "NIche Brand." And, Sergio Marchionne's expectations were to build more than 200,000 cars per year. It was supposed to rival the German brands. So, as much as I would like to believe FCA's plans were to remain a "Niche Brand," I don't believe that was the plan. FCA wanted to make money by selling as many cars as they could, as all car manufacturers do. Now that the Giorgio platform is paid for, Alfa Romeo will continue to use it as long as they can justify selling the Giulia in its current configuration, with most likely some skin alterations as long as it is even slightly profitable, or even Stellantis loses a couple of bucks to keep the factory workers employed; just as they did by dragging out production of the old spider, and most other models that died a slow death.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Under the Stellatis umbrella, I don't believe Alfa Romeo will be profitable as a car company to remain in the Stellatis group's portfolio. Stellantis will continue to do what they do. Sell cars, which are just number to them. Alfa Romeo will generate a chunk of income for Stellatis, when they sell it to the Volkswagen/Porsche group. I don't believe Stellantis has any intentions of making Alfa Romeo succeed, or not consistent with Sergio Marchionne's vision. Stellantis will tidy up Alfa Romeo and most likely Maserati for sale to get the most money out of the Volkswagen/Porsche guys, who have already expressed a very strong interest in purchasing Alfa Romeo. And, those guys know really know how to resurrect a brand. They did it with Bugatti, and Lamborgini, (another marque that almost died under an older iteration of what has now become Stellantis.) And, the Germans have the resources. I won't be able to afford one when that happens, but the Alfa Romeo brand will live on, with all their history, be marketed correctly, and be profitable. It will of course have German influences. If the Germans are smart, which they are, they will let the Italians design it, and leave the logistic up to the Germans. Wouldn't you rather have Alfa Romeo being part of Volkswagen/Porsche or being part of anything that has to do with Stellantis and be made from a Citroen or a (Push n" Go.) Peugeot?
I've been a little busy between the disregard of Stellantis at Concorso Italiano (and my interview with the producer of cartv.com,) the National AROC Convention in Colorado Springs, our recent Alfa Romeo Experience Track Event (not noticed by Stellantis or dealers again), and the upcoming "Best of France and Italy (where we will have over 100 Alfa's)but I should be posting another tirade before this weekend is over.

I would like to color your image a little about Alfa Romeo's home in Arese in the region of Lombardy near the foothills of the Italian Alps (mostly within close proximity is Milan, Turin, Modena (home of Ferrari), Bologna (Lamborghini), Brescia (wine country in the foothills of the Italian Alps) home of the Milla Miglia, etc.
A magical wonderland of friendly people, fantastic scenery, food, wine, and automotive history. I have been visiting there since 1963 and only I am getting old.
 

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In that, we agree. A Fiat 850 is hardly an exotic...
I would love to have one. This is my uncle's one in Belluno, Italy. Picture taken in September 2018, last time I had the chance to visit that spectacular and special country.
 

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I've been a little busy between the disregard of Stellantis at Concorso Italiano (and my interview with the producer of cartv.com,) the National AROC Convention in Colorado Springs, our recent Alfa Romeo Experience Track Event (not noticed by Stellantis or dealers again), and the upcoming "Best of France and Italy (where we will have over 100 Alfa's)but I should be posting another tirade before this weekend is over.

I would like to color your image a little about Alfa Romeo's home in Arese in the region of Lombardy near the foothills of the Italian Alps (mostly within close proximity is Milan, Turin, Modena (home of Ferrari), Bologna (Lamborghini), Brescia (wine country in the foothills of the Italian Alps) home of the Milla Miglia, etc.
A magical wonderland of friendly people, fantastic scenery, food, wine, and automotive history. I have been visiting there since 1963 and only I am getting old.
I have tasted the magic of Lombardy. Is it telling that the Giulia is actually assembled in Lazio?
I would love to have one. This is my uncle's one in Belluno, Italy. Picture taken in September 2018, last time I had the chance to visit that spectacular and special country.
Showing my US roots, this is the 850 that comes to mind.
Wheel Tire Automotive parking light Car Vehicle
 
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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
True that they are currently being produced in Lazio, however the emotional heart (the last time I checked Arese hasn't produced a car since around 2000, still had about 500 employees doing ?) is mostly the Museum. Still an emotional visit.
In the back of our minds we seem to remember when mass production was around Naples (Alfa Sud) the joke was that the beautiful color of the earth in that area is from the bodies rusting on the trains bringing them in. Anyone see a Sud on the road lately?
 
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