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Bmw often underreports results. I would assume audi does too. Ive seen latest Supras with bmw engines dyno whp same as advertised chp. Again, this would/may be dyno dependent too i guess, so im just adding confusion to confusion.
 

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The heavy load in the transmission comes from the front half right? Pump, torque converter, etc are all driven directly from the input shaft. Then there's the loss from flywheel crankshaft, valvetrain, and all the belt driven engine accessories that would be removed from the equation. I don't see how that could be considered remotely accurate.

Torque converter is locked so no real losses there. All of the valvetrain, engine, and accessory loads would be present on an actual engine dyno so you want them included.... You are just using the coast down to subtract out losses from the flywheel back
 

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Torque converter is locked so no real losses there. All of the valvetrain, engine, and accessory loads would be present on an actual engine dyno so you want them included.... You are just using the coast down to subtract out losses from the flywheel back
Good point on valvetrain. But the front half of the transmission (pump), flywheel, and and belt driven accessories can't be calculated if they aren't attached to the driveline on the coast down, right? Perhaps they are similar enough across vehicles that a fixed never or % is applied to account for them. Either way, there would have to be some guesstimation for these.

Edit: derp. I guess the accessory load is present in crank Dyno testing so that doesn't matter either. So effectively the only thing missing would be the front of the transmission. I imagine it's insignificant.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Okay guys. I`m tired to fight with EuroCompulsion and write back my stock file and upgrade Engine ECU up to last version. I dont think, that EuroCompulsion tune show more than 315HP with disabled Race Mode.

Here is the proof. EuroCompulsion guys could confirm, that its mine VIN code and they didnt provide me new tune for that version of ECU.
ECU.JPG

And here is interesting part.
Here is my EuroCompulsion tuned file from Engine ECU. You could use it for free and find somebody who have Dimsport Trasdata or Alientech K-Tag. My friend from Italy help me download this file from Engine ECU, because I havent such tools. Also, we investigate why on EuroCompulsion tune many users have CEL with error P0039 or similar - in short: bad tune.

If anybody need - I can send for free EuroCompulsion handheld, it locked with my VIN code, you just need reset it for new owner.
 

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I'm in the Market for the EuroCompulsion tune so I'm trying to read all the threads I can. Ideally I'd like to do intake, exhaust, GFB DV+ upgraded valve and otherwise leave the entire car stock. I want to do the dual map mode with pops and bangs. I use all three modes regularly and love that I can switch it depending on my mood, weather, time of day, commuting, whether or not the girlfriend is in the car lol.

I don't give a rats *** what numbers this car is ultimately putting down, to me its all about driveability, predictability, responsiveness, smoothness, torque on demand, and some appreciable increase in acceleration. For comparison purposes and tune quality etc. I understand why diving into minute detail like this is important, but for people who have run the P1/P2 dual map mode on a Giulia or Stelvio can you attest to this? Does the P2 tune feel like it's putting down a third again as much power? (~36% increase in WHP claimed by EC with Intake and Exhaust) Does this setup increase the usability and flexibility of the car, and does it make the experience that much more thrilling (noise, shifts, responsiveness, max acceleration force, etc...)

I've heard that this really brings the car "alive" and for less than 10% of the purchase price of the car I tend to think it's well worth it in order to experience the car in the way that it was meant to be. The bottom line is are these modifications worth it from a qualifiable adrenaline and goosebumps standpoint rather than quantifiable dollar per hp and quarter mile standpoint?
 

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"Feelings" are subjective. "Usability, flexibility, sounds, shifts???" Its a tune to increase power. Thats what its for. To increase acceleration. You know how much power the tunes and piggybacks give. Around 30hp. Probably 50tq in the low end of the powerband. Yes thats nice to have. Some people are going to tell you 30hp feels like a completely transformed car lol. Others will say its barely noticeable (they may be used to much more powerful vehicles).

Bottom line is if you want 30hp and dont care about the powertrain warranty you buy it. Nobody reports any driveability issues with it. Its smooth as stock in delivery like most all the options out there are. Theyre a reputable company.


Skip the gfb. The stock valve works perfectly and the gfb may or may not cause faults. Go with a high flow panel filter until ec solves the limp mode issue with ec v2 intakes 100%. They have a hardware fix thats 80% and are working on a software fix.
 

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bhvrdr that's exactly my point, it's not about outright numbers. I juiced up my N54 powered 535i to Cobb Stage 2+ with catless downpipes, massive intercooler, the whole 9 yards, and based on what similar setups were putting down I was in the neighborhood of 400 whp and over 450wtq. Granted that was a manual and weighed a decent bit more, but being that I used to own an Aprilia Tuono V4R, every car I've ever driven is underwhelming acceleration and noise wise, and you can chase power all you want, but a $15,000-$25,000 stock motorcycle will be more exhilarating (to me) and outright faster than any car you can buy off the showroom floor. Best bang for your buck that exists in my opinion. Everything is relative, especially to each individual.

I just discovered the AFE Momentum cold air intake and it retains stock location and the filter housing is fed by the same tube as stock. Is there merit to this design? Could it flow as much air as the V2 for a bit less money and cooler air? I have never liked the idea of naked filters in the engine bay at all and the V2 is indefinitely on backorder anyway. I would tend to lean towards the BMC filter and silicone MAF to turbo tube in order to retain stock functionality while increasing flow characteristics. Not interested in hearing the blowoff noise as it won't be anything close to the Tial Q on my old N54.

It's my understanding that auto start/stop can be defaulted to off and dynamic traction control can be configured into D mode with the P2 tune. This product goes beyond a mere '"tune" as it integrates with and interacts with the factory DNA settings, which I would love to enhance so that there is never confusion which mode you're in without looking. I wan't it to feel like 3 different cars altogether rather than like eating neapolitan ice cream. The only thing I want to sacrifice is dollars, and I'm especially interested in enhancing "feel." Just trying to figure out exactly what I should ultimately expect when planning out my mods.
 

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Your biggest bang for the buck is the tune. You know the ec has some cool add on features like pops and bangs, throttle sensitivity manipulation that makes the car feel more responsive, enhaced esp in dynamic mode, and auto start/stop changes. Those are some cool features. If you're looking for bang for the buck get yourself a tune or piggyback.

The ec p1 or p2 has the add ons and is flashable at home. Those are its merits. It will imoact warranty

The celtic has flash at home. It will impact warranty

The madness is not likely to impact warranty but no add ons.

The jb4 is not likely to impact warranty and integrates with the can bus for smooth power delivery, electronic gauges and datalogging. But no other add ons.

All will give about the same power. Its just up to you what you want and value in your "tune"
 

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I know for a fact my dealer will not void warranty for any parts that Madness installs as I'm in Austin and they have some sort of agreement. That being said, you're likely right that they won't do any warranty work for something related to the engine or transmission itself if they know it has a tune on the car. My understanding is that the service department won't just randomly see the flash counter unless they or someone at Alfa specifically look for it (obviously if the problem is thought to be related to a tune or extra power and abuse and it's under warranty they'll look for it) but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I truly am leaning towards the EC tune with all those features. The raised rev and speed limiters are a game changer and given that I'm not after the biggest numbers, I'm not really concerned about the "how is EC showing way higher numbers than everyone else" discussion as long as it makes as much of a difference in "feel" as any other option. Doesn't EC change torque limits per gear and such for the ecu and change shift quickness in the tcu? On a piggyback I would assume the computer thinks it has the same toque limits when in reality more power is coming out for the same parameters. This may be a moot point but I imagine the shift logic between a car with a JB4 or a MaxPower Pro and a car with Euro+Drive tune would be different and the shifts would feel slightly different in the various DNA modes and manual mode vs auto mode.
 

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Its nice your dealer is being good to you but yes ultimately the warranty is administered through fca not private franchised dealerships so likely you are fine for small stuff but anything big is going to usually need approval from fca and then its out of their hands.

The flash tunes are not directly impacting shifting. Thats done through the tcu. You'd need a transmission tune for that. Shift speed has never been an issue with the zf8 though. Shift algorithm id love to see a tcu tune for though such as giving auto and aggressive downshifts on braking like many dct do in order to put you in the perfect gear for a turn. Manual mode is a work around i guess.

Nevertheless if you value the add ons ec offers and you plan on flash tuning anyways then sounds like a great fit for you.
 

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Thanks bhvrdr for all of the really helpful advice! I have seen Madness's TCU flash tune module of some sort but haven't read any discussions on it yet. Is there any reason you couldn't add this to a car on top of an EC flash tune? If I have the money to invest maybe I can give it a shot later on down the road in the event that I want to test the compatibility.
 

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...
Skip the gfb. The stock valve works perfectly and the gfb may or may not cause faults. Go with a high flow panel filter until ec solves the limp mode issue with ec v2 intakes 100%. They have a hardware fix thats 80% and are working on a software fix.
GFB does 2 things for you which IMO are worth the price of admission:

1) Some of the stock valves stick from time to time at the most inconvenient times. There have been several reports of this in the forum, that includes from me. A sticky valve has the potential to cause serious intake damage, so the car goes into limp mode when this happens. There have been no reports of such problems with GFB DV+.

2) When dropping from high to low throttle settings the turbo boost decreases more slowly with the GFB DV+ compared to stock. This of course reduces turbo lag when you return to a high throttle setting.

In terms of power production, GFB DV+ gains nothing as far as I can tell.
 

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lockem I've heard of the valve sticking and the piston cracking or "shattering." Obviously heat, use, and age all contribute to the odds of this happening. The throttle can sometimes feel on/off in this car so for the ultimate in right foot control when lots of boost is in the mix I like that the GFB DV+ is designed to bleed the minimal amount of charge air necessary to protect everything. It's not binary open/closed like stock, but rather linear. For the cost of a dinner date with drinks I'll toss it on when I do the intake.
 

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That does absolutely nothing
It most definitely does ......................................... makes the car lighter so a few fractions of seconds gained (massively lighter wallet). :p
 

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Ok...trying to get through all this but my ADD kicks in and I go into mental limp mode.
so some takeaways.
EC sorta full bs BC 80 plus bhp not proven
most folks/ sellers will fudge numbers.
Can those w EC stage chime in on how the car feels please? I see a guy asked but no responses.
id say some can provide a decently honest assessment. Butt dyno.
im looking for some hp...not lots...40 to 50 would b nice!!
ive built engines in the ole days...adding turbos and everything avail back then....fuel delivery and metering was always the issue. Thank man (don’t believe in god) for current cars and computers.
Why is it so difficult to get the hp with these multi air valve trains???
in this day of free valve tech, one would think dialing in 70-80 hp would be easy provided u have the proper goodies. What are tuners facing here?? Multi air sucks?? Simple boost doesn’t work suddenly?? Why?.. it’s worked for 100 years??
I got 335 whp from my mini R56. But everything done incl porting, cams, forged internals, huge turbo etc.. (I know...whp vs bhp at crank. ) but my butt and track times and AMG. M and some small block owners approach me after race stating they cannot pull me. and neck muscles and crazy torque steer is a good indicator.sorry digress

bottom line..from EC users....Who like and who doesn’t. Why? What manifold pressures are they seeing?
 

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Ok...trying to get through all this but my ADD kicks in and I go into mental limp mode.
so some takeaways.
EC sorta full bs BC 80 plus bhp not proven
most folks/ sellers will fudge numbers.
Can those w EC stage chime in on how the car feels please? I see a guy asked but no responses.
id say some can provide a decently honest assessment. Butt dyno.
im looking for some hp...not lots...40 to 50 would b nice!!
From memory on the Q4, I remember the difference being significant enough to feel and I enjoyed the power difference. It almost felt like that's how the car should have come from the factory. There was more meatiness above 2500 rpm... I want to say there was a bit better throttle response as well off the line, but can't remember exactly. I never dyno'd the car but I'd say 30hp is a fair assessment. I know the guys at EC mentioned it would take about a full tank of gas w/aggressive driving to really set in. I only had the phase 1 with their V2 intake.
 

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That does absolutely nothing
I’ve had direct experience w bov on mini tuned..., gfb was ok but there’s a better unit that I need to recall ad it’s been years. They definitely help with throttle response and boost bleed off imo
 

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I'll bite.

Have been an EuroCompulsion (EC) customer for Euro+Drive since it became available in the Phase 1 version Feb of 2018. Upgraded to P2 and have ultimately gone to a portfolio of tunes across 3 factory ECU upgrades over the years. Warning you that I am a fan and haven't put a piggyback tune on my Q4, so don't have a comparison with that approach.

Decided to go ECU to preserve factory safety controls and always let the ECU know what real boost was being delivered, which a piggyback obscures. Liked the EC approach of adjusting parameters and fuel maps as opposed to a complete hack of ECU logic and tables. At least conceptually it seems logical and potentially safer.

Have P1, P2, Dual (P1 in N and P2 in D) and RDNA (P2 in N and D to support Race Mode upgrades) in my portfolio - all with rev-limiter/speed-limiter defeats, Pops & Bangs, Traction Control Enhancements and most recently ordered P1, Dual Mode and RDNA versions with Auto Start/Stop default "off" options. I also have the W05 recall performed and the ECU sw which caused P1CEA "Evap" with GFB DV+ installs on stock and EC P1/2. EC had a non-hardware fix for this issue which I optioned in with these most recent maps. I regularly load a new map to match my intentions; for instance:

Summer, with sticky Pilot Sport rubber, is my favorite time to go canyoning here in the Denver Front Range. Run RDNA map and drive it like I "stole it." Race Mode for my spirited driving, unless poor traction (gravel or rain), where I run D. N mode otherwise for mileage, knowing that the RDNA proxy setting, selecting Type 1 (to mimic the QV displays) defaults to always using the N fuel map which has Phase 2 in it. In race, 120ms shifts and 2 levels of Adaptive suspension (Mid Firm and Race Firm) let the 952 4 banger go nuts... Phase 2 nicely compliments the disabled ESC, ACC and FCW. A blast. Would estimate at least +70-80 HP. Not the reported 390chp... but close enough to get into trouble. Butt dyno and Dragy confirms a worthwhile bump! Pops and bangs bring the soundtrack through a resonator only Centerline Magnaflow 3" cat-back. I can confirm both rev and speed limiters not stock. 'nuff said.

Winter, with WinTrack Pros, I want ESC and reduced but fun Phase 1. Am running that now. N mode and D mode are "just right" with slight shift logic improvements in N, pops/bangs, reversed Auto Stop/Start mode and I would guess 40-50 chp. Dry Dragy performance in the high 4.9's to low 5.0s (mind you my last DA was >12,000 and hit a 5.02 0-60).

Common to P2 and P1 is improved, drivable torque between 1,800 and 2,500 rpm, which gives the Q4 in-traffic punch which is both smooth and effortless. Going +30mph anywhere between 20mph and 50mph is just ZAP. As an everyday, this is the nicest thing about EC E+D.

Hare and hounds with Audi S, VW R, Jaguar XE, Kia Stinger and non-M bimmers, my Q4 prevails. Takes an RS Audi, M series BMW or QV to best the fantastic Giorgio chassis, Ti Perf Pkg LSD/Active dampers and combined P2/V2 Intake/Centerline Exhaust.

Re-flashing to Stock is normal for me prior to service visits and in one instance of wanting to get maximum MPG/A mode sailing for a long road trip (over an approx 1,800 mile trip we averaged nearly 34mpg with typical highway speeds between 75-80mph and elevation gains to 8,000 ft.)

EC Tuning support from Toby and crew is second to none... The AR aftermarket vendors I've used are all excellent (Centerline, Alfissimo Int'l, Alfa9 and EC) 5-star outfits... not like some of the flakes I've used for previous tunes and goodies on earlier cars. EC is a standout, mostly because of the "early adopter" support I got when the tunes were newly-minted. Even when the "error was between the seat and the keyboard" I received immediate turn-around and excellent support for my f'-ups. Of late, I made three updates to my tune with same-day turn-around and Q&A feedback.

As I mentioned, I am a fan. Some folks have (correctly) noted that with ECU tunes, you may have service contract impacts. I have had no impacts to 3 recall events and routine / 30k mile servicings. Others have contested the ambitious P2 horsepower numbers ... but, as was mentioned earlier, vendors do "show their products in best light". To ECs credit, they invested in a DimSport 4 wheel dyno right at the onset of their tuning development, and which they have used for all their AR tunes (4C, QV and 2.0) on Stelvio and Giulia, are re-visiting their tune numbers with fresh looks.

True the 2.0 is limited by the physics of a small-ish multi-scroll turbo and other limitations; but, I have been very happy with what can be done with EC's products. Must note that my 2017 has been rock-solid with these mods. Press the red start button and GO! Doesn't get any better than that.

Hope this helps,
 
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