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This is the perfect time for someone with a modded or stock time to post an actual 1/4 slip wit ET and trap. Not a dragy run downhill wit 27moh wind behind you and still ran 102mph. I find it almost impossible that all of the modded 2.0 cars and not one person, Not one ever takes it to strip to see it’s time? Even 1/8 mile? Maybe they do but aren’t forum members? I guess that’s possible.
Coming from mustang world, I know totally different, but I can’t recall anyone who actually mods a car (tune, intake, exhaust) and then doesn’t take it to a strip to see the gains? How do you know if a car is faster without a time slip from a prepped track? Turbo spool noise and butt dyno? There are too many time variables on a dragy that you wouldn’t see at at a strip.
 

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I never said it controls the power the engine produces. I said it coordinates what all the systems are doing together, which is what the video from the Alfa engineers said it does.
It does what I listed...nothing more.....not sure what video you watched ....
 

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Ok I’ll bite.
2017 q4, loaded with every option sans adaptive headlights.
Stock 1/8 runs done two weeks after purchase. Best time 9.006. Trap speed 77-78 typically. 60ft times were not recorded.
It took me a few passes to get a solid routine but it’s like this: hold brake hard, pin the throttle, release brake. Wash repeat. I wound up winning a trophy for best RT of the night. A perfect .500.
Many months after that, not stock. EC V2 intake, centerline cat back exhaust, EC p2 tune: best time 9.005. Traps 77-78. Best RT was .506.
I was very confused as to why the car wasn’t clearly faster after all the parts and tune were added.
Ive been very happy with the exhaust and intake. I bought them for sounds they make and I love it.
I bought the tune to make it fast and it DOES feel faster as I drive it around. Particularly in D. But the times don’t lie.
I also have the pops and bangs which works as advertised. I’ve been meaning to get in touch with EC to make sure the tune is right but I haven’t.
 

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It does what I listed...nothing more.....not sure what video you watched ....
This is the video I saw:


The part about the CDC begins at 1:35

You can watch it yourself, but here's a segment of what it says:

“The exclusive technology that Alfa Romeo has developed, the Chassis Domain Control, is the car’s real brain. Overseeing all the electronic devices that intervene in road behavior in real-time, and harmoniously; making the driving extremely natural, instinctive and safe.”

I'm taking their claims at face value when they say the CDC is the car's real brain, and oversees all the electronic devices that intervene in road behavior in real-time. To me, all means all. Now if some people want to scoff and pretend they know more than what the Alfa engineers are claiming, that's their issue. I trust Alfa engineers know what they're talking about.

Because Ferrari was involved in the development of this car; I know what they do with their racing cars. The F1 cars are constantly sending telemetry to the pits where they can watch on computer screens what's going on with the car as it's out on the track. I have no problem considering that they just might have brought that know-how and programming experience to the Giulia's systems when they developed it. I have no idea just how much of that they might have put in the Giulia, but I find it very hard to believe they didn't use that knowledge and experience when setting up the control systems of the car. Why wouldn't they? The car certainly behaves on the road like no other, so it makes sense to me that they put some of that magic into it.

None of this is worth fighting about however, as people are certainly free to believe as they wish. Regardless, I maintain that the Giulia is more than the sum of its parts and I greatly appreciate all the effort that made it possible.
 

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Road behavior means handling and suspension...nothing more..... I know it's not worth fighting about and people certainly are free to believe as they wish but I'm posting facts and I believe it's important to put the facts out there.... some people are not concerned with marketing speak... and that commercial is just marketing speak
 

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Ok I’ll bite.
2017 q4, loaded with every option sans adaptive headlights.
Stock 1/8 runs done two weeks after purchase. Best time 9.006. Trap speed 77-78 typically. 60ft times were not recorded.
It took me a few passes to get a solid routine but it’s like this: hold brake hard, pin the throttle, release brake. Wash repeat. I wound up winning a trophy for best RT of the night. A perfect .500.
Many months after that, not stock. EC V2 intake, centerline cat back exhaust, EC p2 tune: best time 9.005. Traps 77-78. Best RT was .506.
I was very confused as to why the car wasn’t clearly faster after all the parts and tune were added.
Ive been very happy with the exhaust and intake. I bought them for sounds they make and I love it.
I bought the tune to make it fast and it DOES feel faster as I drive it around. Particularly in D. But the times don’t lie.
I also have the pops and bangs which works as advertised. I’ve been meaning to get in touch with EC to make sure the tune is right but I haven’t.
It doesn't make sense that your times would be the same. Even if you didn't have the tune, I would think the intake and exhaust alone would at least make some kind of difference, even if just a little. I would definitely contact Toby.
 

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Road behavior means handling and suspension...nothing more..... I know it's not worth fighting about and people certainly are free to believe as they wish but I'm posting facts and I believe it's important to put the facts out there.... some people are not concerned with marketing speak... and that commercial is just marketing speak
Well obviously you and others have that as your definition of road behavior, but I include power delivery and transmission behavior in that definition. What you stated isn't wrong; the image below shows the CDC being connected to all the points you said it is, however it also shows two additional connection points. One dot is clearly the engine, and the second is behind it which I'm assuming would be the transmission. It could be the AWD system although the image shows a QV; hard to tell from where the dot's located.

CDC control.png


I see that image as indicating a bit more than marketing speak. Maybe it is, and If you want to call it that you certainly can, however marketing speak or no, the Giulia delivers a driving experience that matches what the video claims. I don't see that as something to argue against; I see it as a positive. The Giulia delivers. It delivers so well that the magazines consider it the benchmark for handling comparisons now. To me that's impressive. Kudos to the team that put that kind of magic into this car.

Now having said all that, we've kinda sorta derailed EC's thread so back on topic. I don't live near anyplace where I can get either a dyno or a quarter mile time. For those who have the EC tune or even just the intake and an exhaust, if you guys can get some time slips and post them so we can compare, that would be interesting to see. Include your model, what it has (AWD, sunroof, tires, etc) your weight as a driver and how much gas was in it when you made your run. If anyone is able to get a dyno run, that would be very helpful too. I know it would be a pain to do, but if anyone is willing to do either (or both) a track run and a dyno run, then reflash their car back to stock and do those same runs again, that would be extremely useful.
 

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Well obviously you and others have that as your definition of road behavior, but I include power delivery and transmission behavior in that definition. .
you can include whatever you want, but its still wrong....here is what the CDCM does ...taken right from the service info

CDCM.JPG


What you stated isn't wrong; the image below shows the CDC being connected to all the points you said it is, however it also shows two additional connection points. One dot is clearly the engine, and the second is behind it which I'm assuming would be the transmission. It could be the AWD system although the image shows a QV; hard to tell from where the dot's located
I see that image as indicating a bit more than marketing speak. Maybe it is, and If you want to call it that you certainly can, however marketing speak or no, the Giulia delivers a driving experience that matches what the video claims. I don't see that as something to argue against; I see it as a positive. The Giulia delivers. It delivers so well that the magazines consider it the benchmark for handling comparisons now. To me that's impressive. Kudos to the team that put that kind of magic into this car.
what you see is the vehicles topology, every module in the car is connected to the same bus and therefore connected to every other module. ...this is a 2.0 Giulia network ...
topology.JPG


I could give you an education on how CAN bus works but I really dont have the time for that right now.....but just because modules are connected to other modules in no way indicates that they control anything other than what they are responsible for .
 

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you can include whatever you want, but its still wrong....here is what the CDCM does ...taken right from the service info

View attachment 96003



what you see is the vehicles topology, every module in the car is connected to the same bus and therefore connected to every other module. ...this is a 2.0 Giulia network ...
View attachment 96004

I could give you an education on how CAN bus works but I really dont have the time for that right now.....but just because modules are connected to other modules in no way indicates that they control anything other than what they are responsible for .
Thank you for this; very informative. Questions: when it says "...the conditions of the road surface and to the dynamic conditions of the vehicle..." are you saying the dynamic conditions of the vehicle do not include power delivery and transmission behavior? I would assume the ECU and CDC are able to communicate with each other through the CAN bus, is that not true? Just for the sake of definition, I differentiate between control and cooperation. Control is I tell you exactly what to do and not do, and you have no choice but to do it. The CDC has direct control of the things the description says it does. Cooperation is you and I are completely separate and operate independently, but we talk to each other and based on that conversation, cooperate in what we do, how we do it and when, in order to work together. You and I had that exact process recently, when you kindly helped me with an infotainment upgrade, where I was able to upgrade my infotainment version in cooperation with you and your efforts. I see that process taking place in the Giulia. Switching from N to D feels like it changes more than just the suspension settings. The engine and trans operate differently too, which I've noticed affects gas mileage so something different is happening in the power train as well as the chassis. Is that not correct? I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I recognize that you have access to information I don't, and I genuinely wish to know more about this car. Thank you for taking the time to engage in the conversation; I know you're a working man and I appreciate that.
 

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Thank you for this; very informative. Questions: when it says "...the conditions of the road surface and to the dynamic conditions of the vehicle..." are you saying the dynamic conditions of the vehicle do not include power delivery and transmission behavior?
They do not. the CDCM operates in a vacuum as to power delivery..it cares only about whats going on with the chassis... it gets info to do its job, but has no direct control over the power train

here is an excerpt from the service info
The CDCM is on the Controller Area Network - CHASSIS (CAN-CH) data bus system and communicates directly to the BCM. The BCM is responsible for sending the signal to the IPC to illuminate the warning indicator lamp in order to alert the vehicle operator of a potential CDCM concerns.
it should also be noted that although the CDCM controls the torque vectoring rear in the QV, there is still another module thats involved...
DESCRIPTION
The Torque Vectoring Module (TVM) (1) controls the Rear Drive Unit (RDU) functions. It is located in the rear of the vehicle.

OPERATION
The Torque Vectoring Module (TVM) receives information over the Controller Area Network (CAN) data network:

  • From the Chassis Domain Control Module (CDCM), the request for torque distribution.
  • From the Antilock Brake System (ABS) module, it receives information on lateral acceleration data, the activation status of the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) function and wheel speed.
  • From the Electronic Power Steering (EPS), the Steering Angle Sensor (SAS).
  • From the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), information from the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS) and the engine Revolution Per Minute (RPM) sensor.
  • From the Body Control Module (BCM), the ignition status.
The TVM transmits via the CAN line:
To the CDCM module, the status of the small electric motors and confirmation of torque distribution.
  • Data on its own operational status and torque implemented.
The TVM receives information directly from the:
Small electric motor temperature sensors.Clutch oil temperature sensors
  • Small electric motor position sensors
The TVM module sends activation commands directly:
  • To the two axle actuator electric motors.
REMARKS
If the ABS module should require the ESC function, the TVM module freezes the request for torque split, coming from the CDCM module, to implement the strategies for the ESC function.

I would assume the ECU and CDC are able to communicate with each other through the CAN bus, is that not true? Just for the sake of definition, I differentiate between control and cooperation. Control is I tell you exactly what to do and not do, and you have no choice but to do it. The CDC has direct control of the things the description says it does. Cooperation is you and I are completely separate and operate independently, but we talk to each other and based on that conversation, cooperate in what we do, how we do it and when, in order to work together. You and I had that exact process recently, when you kindly helped me with an infotainment upgrade, where I was able to upgrade my infotainment version in cooperation with you and your efforts. I see that process taking place in the Giulia.
All modules on the bus communicate and supply information to each other..the CDCM for example needs to know vehicle speed in order to control the front splitter... but it has no input to get that information, so it gets it from another module that does have that information. it also needs to know what setting the DNA switch is in so that it can adjust the suspension, but again, it has no direct input so it goes out on the bus for the info it needs.

Switching from N to D feels like it changes more than just the suspension settings. The engine and trans operate differently too, which I've noticed affects gas mileage so something different is happening in the power train as well as the chassis. Is that not correct? I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I recognize that you have access to information I don't, and I genuinely wish to know more about this car. Thank you for taking the time to engage in the conversation; I know you're a working man and I appreciate that.
The DNA switch does change power train settings so both engine and transmission are affected.... and as I mentioned above CDCM is notified so that it can adjust the suspension settings.

so yes, all of the modules work together. they just dont get to control whatever they like... :D
 

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The DNA switch does change power train settings so both engine and transmission are affected.... and as I mentioned above CDCM is notified so that it can adjust the suspension settings.

so yes, all of the modules work together. they just dont get to control whatever they like... :D
I didn't think they would, nor was I saying that, which is why I pointed out the difference between control and cooperation in my previous post. I think we're actually saying the same thing, just using different terms. The CDCM is controlling those elements it does have control over, based on feedback it's getting from those elements, plus the information it's receiving on the bus that other system modules are reporting. Does that fit with what you're saying better?
 

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Discussion Starter #1,014
(Copying from our intake thread, as it will apply to some affected users)


I'd like to update this thread for users using the V1 and V2 intakes affected by the W05 recall update.

(I'll keep this simple with a quick backstory) Within the factory intake system, there is a venturi device that creates a venturi effect (a vacuum, under boost pressure). This is done in order to purge evaporative vapors from the system. It is inside the factory intake tubing, built in (this is why we do not re-use it as part of our intake systems).

Without this in place, another device must be made and located in the proper position in order to achieve the same/desired results. This is something that we have developed and included in our intake system. This venturi device has become more common among newer cars, and just about every intake for every car we work on has to have some sort of venturi effect achieved in order to keep the system satisfied.

There are strict tolerances already in the ECU coding for what kind of pressure drop is required and how much is allowed. Thus the venturi must imitate the factory venturi (which is often difficult given the amount of variables and scenarios to air conditions that are accounted for with their unit). On most occasions, our venturi works effectively. It seems the area affected the most is usually at higher speeds, low throttle cruising events. When the amount of pressure drop falls outside the accepted threshold range, the ECU will show a CEL and DTC code (P1CEA).

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Moving forward:

Our current venturi design has worked about 99.9% of time (when all hoses and hardware are correctly connected). However, as of the last month or two, we have seen more and more cases of the P1CEA occurring on vehicles, and with more frequency. Many of these vehicles have been running the intake with no previous issues, some of them for 10s of thousands of miles.

It would appear upon further investigation, that this increase in occurrences of the P1CEA code and evaporative purge warnings is caused by an adjustment of tolerances within the ECU parameters of the new software update/recall being flashed onto ECUs, known as W05. The threshold sensitivities have been tightened severely, throwing the current venturi design outside of tolerance.

More so, what many may not realize (and I did not until the past week), is that FCA began rolling out this change of software before they announced or initiated notifications to owners who were affected by the recall. This means that you may have taken your car into the dealer prior to this recall being announced, and received the software flash without realizing what it was for. It was also being placed on cars sold and leaving the dealership as early as late December/early January (this includes 2019s and 2020s sold as new, or 2018s used).

If you have a V1 or V2 intake piece, and you have recently had your car updated at the dealer (knowingly or not), and have noticed an occurrence of error messages on the dash accompanied by a CEL, you need to scan and read the DTC code. If it is a P1CEA DTC code, please contact us directly and we will get a replacement venturi to you.

We are in the process of designing a new venturi piece in order to satisfy these new thresholds within the ECU. I am also working on a possible change/solution through the tune file calibration for customers who also have Euro+Drive. The latter is something that requires time and testing, so I will not be utilizing this solution or offering this to anyone else until it is finalized and ready. I will notify everyone if and when that solution becomes viable. For now, we will have to rely on a hardware change only.

Please let us know if you have any questions in regards to this, and contact us if you fit the criteria above.
 

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Is there a way to determine if the ECM has been updated according to the W05 recall?
 

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Thank you for this thoughtful and excellent effort. Just got mine updated and haven't put her through any aggressive driving. Will let you know.
Keep safe guys
 

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Thank you for this thoughtful and excellent effort. Just got mine updated and haven't put her through any aggressive driving. Will let you know.
Keep safe guys
So I have had the code pop a few times now and it all seems to happen when car is at speed and at low throttle or almost no throttle (letting foot of the gas). I am looking forward to getting the new venturi and seeing how it works.
 

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Hmmm, I have the same Hardware number but Software version G522TA10. I presume that means that the W05 recall code has not been loaded on my car. Is that a reasonable assumption?

On the error and transmission misbehavior front: MES reports a zillion canbus communications faults, and a whopping 11.7 volts measured by the IBS (doubled checked with a voltmeter). This smells like a dying battery. Of course now I cannot find my battery maintainer <sigh>. My car is just over 2.5 years old (manufactured in Sept 2017, delivered end of Jan 2018) and it seems like that is about if not more than the life expectancy of the OEM battery.

No codes on the ECM.
 
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