[RAO-3]

EC has always been responsive to me, no matter what the question is. Toby or Brandon has also provided a new tune file each time my car has gone back to the dealer. Chris has also been helpful in answering questions both before and after the sale.

One of the issues some may be encountering is unrealistic expectations. One must balance expectations with practicality. I don’t think anyone wants to blow their engine just to have the “fastest” car.

Ray

 

[kozak]

But we want what we pay for. End

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

[Alpha]

But we want what we pay for. End

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

This... How. Many would be buying the P2 package if it was advertised at the actually realized 320hp amount

 

[Go_a_way1]

This... How. Many would be buying the P2 package if it was advertised at the actually realized 320hp amount

I think I would be happy with 320hp on a otherwise completely stock car (maybe do a drop in filter) but I am afraid this tune isn't worth doing unless I have a intake and exhaust

 

[kozak]

320ps will make any other tuner for half money than ec phase 2.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

[Eagle7]

I think I would be happy with 320hp on a otherwise completely stock car (maybe do a drop in filter) but I am afraid this tune isn't worth doing unless I have a intake and exhaust

I think as you can already see, like any product or company, there are always malcontents who have nothing else to do with their time but constantly trash and harass. I've seen this with every product or car I've ever owned. There's always those few who constantly accuse and tell you how what you bought is no good, or not as good as whatever it is they're pushing. It's pretty simple. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Do your research before you buy; especially when it comes to mods for a car. In order to get the most benefit from the tune, it is recommended you improve the intake and exhaust, but not absolutely necessary. Toby will customize your tune to whatever you have, you just need to tell him what your setup is. You'll get more performance with an improved intake and exhaust obviously, but that's pretty much true for any car. If you just want to improve the intake, let Toby know. He'll modify the tune to fit your setup.

Since Toby uses the factory software, nothing is 'bypassed'. Everything works as it's supposed to. It costs more because he literally customizes each tune to each individual car. This is due to the surprising number of different versions coming from the factory. There's no one-size-fits-all tune. When I got my tune, I literally had to ship my ECU to him so he could directly read it since he wasn't able to recognize it from the number it had. He didn't charge me extra for that. I shipped it overnight FedEx, and he shipped it back the same way the day he got it. Two days after I shipped it, I got it back. He covered the cost of all that including the FedEx charges. Customer service and support are just as valuable to me, so even though it cost more, it's been worth it to me. Yes it costs more initially, but they don't charge for updates that are necessary to comply with changes in the factory software that Alfa makes, and they have made quite a few since the car came out. EC customers didn't have to buy anything else or pay anything else for any of those updates to their tune. If you simply don't want to spend that much; don't. There are other products out there, just as there are other cars. Nobody is being forced to buy any product from EC. Don't let a few malcontents discourage you; the overwhelming majority of customers are more than happy with EC, their products and especially their customer service.

 

[Go_a_way1]

I think as you can already see, like any product or company, there are always malcontents who have nothing else to do with their time but constantly trash and harass. I've seen this with every product or car I've ever owned. There's always those few who constantly accuse and tell you how what you bought is no good, or not as good as whatever it is they're pushing. It's pretty simple. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Do your research before you buy; especially when it comes to mods for a car. In order to get the most benefit from the tune, it is recommended you improve the intake and exhaust, but not absolutely necessary. Toby will customize your tune to whatever you have, you just need to tell him what your setup is. You'll get more performance with an improved intake and exhaust obviously, but that's pretty much true for any car. If you just want to improve the intake, let Toby know. He'll modify the tune to fit your setup.

Since Toby uses the factory software, nothing is 'bypassed'. Everything works as it's supposed to. It costs more because he literally customizes each tune to each individual car. This is due to the surprising number of different versions coming from the factory. There's no one-size-fits-all tune. When I got my tune, I literally had to ship my ECU to him so he could directly read it since he wasn't able to recognize it from the number it had. He didn't charge me extra for that. I shipped it overnight FedEx, and he shipped it back the same way the day he got it. Two days after I shipped it, I got it back. He covered the cost of all that including the FedEx charges. Customer service and support are just as valuable to me, so even though it cost more, it's been worth it to me. Yes it costs more initially, but they don't charge for updates that are necessary to comply with changes in the factory software that Alfa makes, and they have made quite a few since the car came out. EC customers didn't have to buy anything else or pay anything else for any of those updates to their tune. If you simply don't want to spend that much; don't. There are other products out there, just as there are other cars. Nobody is being forced to buy any product from EC. Don't let a few malcontents discourage you; the overwhelming majority of customers are more than happy with EC, their products and especially their customer service.

Thanks for the input. I agree there will always be dissatisfied people with products but I always like to hear from both camps because both sides can have valid arguments.

For my use case as a DD I want something with a little more pep since this is my first car under 400hp in many years but my expectations are realistic from what can simply be achieved with a tune and no other mods. Oneday I may upgrade but right now the intake is sold out and I like the quite exhaust its refreshing to me lol.

In your experience does the tune really make the car come "alive" like some claim or is it more of how the stock car behaves with a small bump in power? I hope that question makes sense haha

 

[JeFizz]

Got to be careful on the wording... The shift logic is unchanged but by altering power and throttle maps it can influence the shifting. Not unlike a pedal tuner or piggyback.

The main advantage is if you want pops&bangs. The dynamic traction appears to be dubious at best.

Dynamic traction makes a big difference IMO. This is with my experience on icy Minnesota roads, and lakes. Traction/stability control is still there, yet greatly reduced.

 

[Go_a_way1]

Dynamic traction makes a big difference IMO. This is with my experience on icy Minnesota roads, and lakes. Traction/stability control is still there, yet greatly reduced.

Now this intrigues me. I drive mine in the winter and dislike that I can't have a little fun now and then. Could you please expand on your experiences with the dynamic traction??

 

[Eagle7]

Thanks for the input. I agree there will always be dissatisfied people with products but I always like to hear from both camps because both sides can have valid arguments.

For my use case as a DD I want something with a little more pep since this is my first car under 400hp in many years but my expectations are realistic from what can simply be achieved with a tune and no other mods. Oneday I may upgrade but right now the intake is sold out and I like the quite exhaust its refreshing to me lol.

In your experience does the tune really make the car come "alive" like some claim or is it more of how the stock car behaves with a small bump in power? I hope that question makes sense haha

It pretty much depends on how you drive. As my DD, most of my drive is stop and go city driving so high performance is a non-issue. I also don't want a loud exhaust or aftermarket exhaust resonance. I did buy a Remus axleback exhaust, because at the time I thought that would be necessary for the P2 tune (it wasn't and isn't) but sure enough, there was resonance. I have a complete thread on dealing with Resonance and a Remus exhaust here if you would like to look at it Dampening Resonance with a Remus Exhaust but if you want the short version, it turns out the resonance was primarily caused by the actual exhaust tips not extending out behind the car. The tips that you get from the factory are fake, and are literally bolted to the back of the car. The Remus exhaust barely extended into the inside back of them, so the sound coming out of the exhaust tips was coming out into the inside of the back of the car. This caused the back of the car to resonate up into the trunk, which caused resonance in two major areas; the aluminum heat shield, and the black box in the middle of the trunk. It wasn't until after I went to the trouble adding dampening mat to those areas in the trunk (which helped but not enough) that I figured out the exhaust tip issue. I bought actual exhaust tips, removed the fake factory tips, and attached the actual tips onto the ends of the exhaust so they actually extended out behind the car. Problem solved; resonance gone. At this point I can't say if that alone would have solved it because I didn't do that until after adding dampening mat, but it was what finally eliminated the resonance.

The interior noise level under normal driving is no worse than it was stock, but when you accelerate you can hear the extra growl of the exhaust which is fine. Cruising along on the way to work I can listen to the radio or music without any interference from exhaust noise. For some people, that's not what they want. They want a loud exhaust. I wanted the improvement in performance, and it did help. Adding just the intake smoothed out the low speed performance noticeably. Gradual acceleration was smoother, easier, and the trans shifting wasn't as jerky. Under normal use, I don't notice the intake noise; this is with windows rolled up. Rolled down, you can hear it when you accelerate. Rolled up, you can still hear it slightly when you accelerate, but I've gotten so used to it I don't even notice it now because it's in combination with the exhaust growl. I actually like it, sounds good.

When I'm running the stock tune after flashing the car back to take it into service, I can tell the tune isn't there. You don't notice anything when you first accelerate, but you notice it the moment the trans shifts into third and beyond. The car doesn't pull nearly as strong as it does with the tune. (This is with their V2 intake and a Remus exhaust). Floor it, and you definitely notice the difference. Compared to having the tune, it feels like I'm pushing against a headwind; it just doesn't seem to want to pull and go like it does with the tune. I have two stages of the tune. I have Phase 1 (P1) in N mode which I use for daily driving, and is a very nice improvement for that kind of driving. When I need more, I switch it to D mode which has Phase 2 (P2) on it, and it transforms the car very noticeably. It feels like the car hunkers down about an inch, the trans shifts down one gear, and the throttle response is more aggressive. It's clearly better than the stock tune.

The question is, is it award-winning, record-breaking, OMG performance? No. It's not going to transform your 2.0 into a QV. It just isn't. If that's what you're looking for, the tune isn't going to deliver that. At least by itself. If you want to start throwing money into mods and begin upgrading intakes, exhausts, downpipes, lighter wheels, brakes, etc. and THEN get the tune, yeah it will be pretty impressive. Still won't be a QV though unless you really throw money into it, but if you're going to do that, just get a QV.

If you have the budget and can afford it, the EC tune is really really nice. Even more so if you add the intake and an exhaust. You can even add those later and they'll adjust the tune for you to take advantage of them. Do understand though, that these cars learn any changes, and it can take a bit before the full benefits become apparent. If you have any questions or concerns, the people at EC will be more than happy to go over them with you and help you.

 

[JeFizz]

Now this intrigues me. I drive mine in the winter and dislike that I can't have a little fun now and then. Could you please expand on your experiences with the dynamic traction??

It basically allows for more slip, more gettin sideways if you so choose. The best option though is to enable Race mode which pretty much removes all but the faintest hint of intervention. I attended an ice driving event with the local Audi Club; Race mode was awesome. Only way to really get it sideways and maintain a drift/slide. Dynamic traction would intervene too soon.

 

[Go_a_way1]

It pretty much depends on how you drive. As my DD, most of my drive is stop and go city driving so high performance is a non-issue. I also don't want a loud exhaust or aftermarket exhaust resonance. I did buy a Remus axleback exhaust, because at the time I thought that would be necessary for the P2 tune (it wasn't and isn't) but sure enough, there was resonance. I have a complete thread on dealing with Resonance and a Remus exhaust here if you would like to look at it Dampening Resonance with a Remus Exhaust but if you want the short version, it turns out the resonance was primarily caused by the actual exhaust tips not extending out behind the car. The tips that you get from the factory are fake, and are literally bolted to the back of the car. The Remus exhaust barely extended into the inside back of them, so the sound coming out of the exhaust tips was coming out into the inside of the back of the car. This caused the back of the car to resonate up into the trunk, which caused resonance in two major areas; the aluminum heat shield, and the black box in the middle of the trunk. It wasn't until after I went to the trouble adding dampening mat to those areas in the trunk (which helped but not enough) that I figured out the exhaust tip issue. I bought actual exhaust tips, removed the fake factory tips, and attached the actual tips onto the ends of the exhaust so they actually extended out behind the car. Problem solved; resonance gone. At this point I can't say if that alone would have solved it because I didn't do that until after adding dampening mat, but it was what finally eliminated the resonance.

The interior noise level under normal driving is no worse than it was stock, but when you accelerate you can hear the extra growl of the exhaust which is fine. Cruising along on the way to work I can listen to the radio or music without any interference from exhaust noise. For some people, that's not what they want. They want a loud exhaust. I wanted the improvement in performance, and it did help. Adding just the intake smoothed out the low speed performance noticeably. Gradual acceleration was smoother, easier, and the trans shifting wasn't as jerky. Under normal use, I don't notice the intake noise; this is with windows rolled up. Rolled down, you can hear it when you accelerate. Rolled up, you can still hear it slightly when you accelerate, but I've gotten so used to it I don't even notice it now because it's in combination with the exhaust growl. I actually like it, sounds good.

When I'm running the stock tune after flashing the car back to take it into service, I can tell the tune isn't there. You don't notice anything when you first accelerate, but you notice it the moment the trans shifts into third and beyond. The car doesn't pull nearly as strong as it does with the tune. (This is with their V2 intake and a Remus exhaust). Floor it, and you definitely notice the difference. Compared to having the tune, it feels like I'm pushing against a headwind; it just doesn't seem to want to pull and go like it does with the tune. I have two stages of the tune. I have Phase 1 (P1) in N mode which I use for daily driving, and is a very nice improvement for that kind of driving. When I need more, I switch it to D mode which has Phase 2 (P2) on it, and it transforms the car very noticeably. It feels like the car hunkers down about an inch, the trans shifts down one gear, and the throttle response is more aggressive. It's clearly better than the stock tune.

The question is, is it award-winning, record-breaking, OMG performance? No. It's not going to transform your 2.0 into a QV. It just isn't. If that's what you're looking for, the tune isn't going to deliver that. At least by itself. If you want to start throwing money into mods and begin upgrading intakes, exhausts, downpipes, lighter wheels, brakes, etc. and THEN get the tune, yeah it will be pretty impressive. Still won't be a QV though unless you really throw money into it, but if you're going to do that, just get a QV.

If you have the budget and can afford it, the EC tune is really really nice. Even more so if you add the intake and an exhaust. You can even add those later and they'll adjust the tune for you to take advantage of them. Do understand though, that these cars learn any changes, and it can take a bit before the full benefits become apparent. If you have any questions or concerns, the people at EC will be more than happy to go over them with you and help you.

Thank you for the detailed reply I am thinking I will sleep on it one more night and possibly order tomorrow

 

[Go_a_way1]

It basically allows for more slip, more gettin sideways if you so choose. The best option though is to enable Race mode which pretty much removes all but the faintest hint of intervention. I attended an ice driving event with the local Audi Club; Race mode was awesome. Only way to really get it sideways and maintain a drift/slide. Dynamic traction would intervene too soon.

So from the sounds of it the dynamic traction is still relatively safe for street driving and adding track mode is well for just that, closed course use (which my car will never see sadly)?
Thanks that helps alot I really like the idea of a little more freedom to get a little sideways but I don't necessarily need or want to go full drift mode around traffic circles haha. This tune is sounding more and more of what I want

 

[JeFizz]

So from the sounds of it the dynamic traction is still relatively safe for street driving and adding track mode is well for just that, closed course use (which my car will never see sadly)?
Thanks that helps alot I really like the idea of a little more freedom to get a little sideways but I don't necessarily need or want to go full drift mode around traffic circles haha. This tune is sounding more and more of what I want

I like my tune; currently P1 with dynamic traction and rev limit raised. EC V2 intake, GFB DV+. I need exhaust now so I can apply the P2 tune. I DID run P2 with my setup and had some performance problems because of the restrictive exhaust. I know I shouldn't have done it, but I was curious and that's just who I am.

Going from P2 down to P1 was definitely noticed. Going from no tune to P1 was harder to notice because of the long learning cycle (~100 miles). P2 is crazy, P1 is really nice.

 

[Go_a_way1]

I like my tune; currently P1 with dynamic traction and rev limit raised. EC V2 intake, GFB DV+. I need exhaust now so I can apply the P2 tune. I DID run P2 with my setup and had some performance problems because of the restrictive exhaust. I know I shouldn't have done it, but I was curious and that's just who I am.

Going from P2 down to P1 was definitely noticed. Going from no tune to P1 was harder to notice because of the long learning cycle (~100 miles). P2 is crazy, P1 is really nice.

What kind of issues did you have with the P2 on stock exhaust? Did it go into limp mode or anything like that? I would be willing to try the P2 with stock exhaust too haha

 

[JeFizz]

What kind of issues did you have with the P2 on stock exhaust? Did it go into limp mode or anything like that? I would be willing to try the P2 with stock exhaust too haha

Like the exhaust was getting overheated and restrictive, which if you think about it makes sense. P2 is forcing more fuel etc. If it can't burn it it'll get to the cat and the cat overheats. I removed it promptly as I did not want any issues. No limp mode, I didn't let it get to that.

 

[Go_a_way1]

Like the exhaust was getting overheated and restrictive, which if you think about it makes sense. P2 is forcing more fuel etc. If it can't burn it it'll get to the cat and the cat overheats. I removed it promptly as I did not want any issues. No limp mode, I didn't let it get to that.

Makes sense maybe I will reconsider getting an exhaust down the road haha thanks for all the info

 

[Triumph23]

Like the exhaust was getting overheated and restrictive, which if you think about it makes sense. P2 is forcing more fuel etc. If it can't burn it it'll get to the cat and the cat overheats. I removed it promptly as I did not want any issues. No limp mode, I didn't let it get to that.

How did you determine the exhaust and in particular the cat was heating up more than normal? Did you use a OBD device? MES can log exhaust gas and catalyst temperatures.

 

[Alpha]

... And yet the data logs show P2 boost being no more then the average piggyback and timing being hardly changed...

 

[JeFizz]

How did you determine the exhaust and in particular the cat was heating up more than normal? Did you use a OBD device? MES can log exhaust gas and catalyst temperatures.

100% guess. I've had a cat melt down on an old Cutlas Supreme that had an insanely rich mixture, I know what that felt like.