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I live in the US and have a 2017 QV. Looking at how best to add power with only modifying ECU programming. Something dealer wouldn’t be able to detect. I’ve seen a few things... Eurocompulsion and swapping out ECUs, Eurocharged and others do software changes. Can anybody comment on their experiences. What has worked well and what has not? I’m not interested in GoPedals or exhaust mods.
Thank you I advance for your input!!
 

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I live in the US and have a 2017 QV. Looking at how best to add power with only modifying ECU programming. Something dealer wouldn’t be able to detect. I’ve seen a few things... Eurocompulsion and swapping out ECUs, Eurocharged and others do software changes. Can anybody comment on their experiences. What has worked well and what has not? I’m not interested in GoPedals or exhaust mods.
Thank you I advance for your input!!
From what I've read the eurocompulsion clone ecu is probably the most robust solution while maintaining the factory warranty. But it's also the most expensive at $4k. I'm personally not a fan of the sensor boxes that fake the ecu by massaging the data...that seems limited in ability, and potentially problematic for a learning ecu. Unfortunately I have no direct experience with any, but if price were no consideration, I'd choose the EC clone.
 

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No chance to have an undetectable tuning. Loging is going on everywhere (bodycomputer, transmission ecu etc.)

And to be honest if people tune their car they should own up to it instead of making everybody else who dont tune their car pay for it under warranty

If you dont have the balls - dont do it.
That said I guess the QV engine is very durable and can cope a good amount more power. The transmission and the diff will be the limiting factors


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This forum is supposed to be free of attitude and judgement. When I asked about power upgrades and trying to avoid warranty issues, I’m only asking what many others are thinking or are considering doing. It’s “our” forum to share these ideas.That’s part of what makes having our car fun. It isn’t about “having the balls” to do anything. And I don’t know what it’s like for Alfa Romeo owners in Germany, but if you read my entire post, you would’ve seen where I said I live in the USA. So your issues aren’t mine.
Thank you for your helpful comments about the rate-limiting hardware issues we may encounter when increasing power in the QV. But check your biases and attitude at the door or maybe you shouldn’t post anymore.
 

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No chance to have an undetectable tuning. Loging is going on everywhere (bodycomputer, transmission ecu etc.)

And to be honest if people tune their car they should own up to it instead of making everybody else who dont tune their car pay for it under warranty
If you dont have the balls - dont do it.


That said I guess the QV engine is very durable and can cope a good amount more power. The transmission and the diff will be the limiting factors


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This forum is supposed to be free of attitude and judgement. When I asked about power upgrades and trying to avoid warranty issues, I’m only asking what many others are thinking or are considering doing. It’s “our” forum to share these ideas.That’s part of what makes having our car fun. It isn’t about “having the balls” to do anything. And I don’t know what it’s like for Alfa Romeo owners in Germany, but if you read my entire post, you would’ve seen where I said I live in the USA. So your issues aren’t mine.
Thank you for your helpful comments about the rate-limiting hardware issues we may encounter when increasing power in the QV. But check your biases and attitude at the door or maybe you shouldn’t post anymore.

I agree. All that is need is to answer the question. "How do I do ..."
The question is not, "Why should I do ..."

Currently, the only ECU mod that I know of is from EuroCompulsion. Their solution is to replace both ECU's (yes, the QV has two ECU's). Before going to the dealer for any type of service, you would need to swap out both ECU's. At that point, they wouldn't know you had swapped the ECU's unless you told them. I don't know what's involved as I don't own a QV.
Link -> https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/802-vendor-deals/35498-euro-drive-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-2-9l-tuning-official-thread.html

You could also try Madness Autoworks. Link -> https://madnessautoworks.com/2017-Alfa%20Romeo-Giulia/start-shopping-cid1
 

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If a dealer is trying hard enough, I suppose they can detect any software changes, but most dealers are so inexperienced with this brand that I doubt they'd even know where or how to look. I chose the Eurocompulsion tune for my Ti after using their V2 intake. I really liked their approach to things, and their reputation convinced me to go with their tune rather than a piggyback or some other type of mod. The fact that they were willing to spend the money to buy a new (and very expensive) state-of-the-art dyno just to get accurate dyno readings of the Giulias, impressed me with how serious and dedicated they are to real results. Right now the QV tune (which apparently contains two ECU modules) is on sale for $2,199 which still isn't cheap, but being able to safely and reliably add 90 hp to a car of this level of sophistication means it wouldn't be cheap anyways. That's actually not a bad price considering it contains two ECU units in addition to their software. Toby does a fantastic job of the software, and the customer support and response is absolutely first class.

In addition to the performance improvements, another great reason to use them is the fact that they are using actual factory software; it's not a hack. They simply change certain settings that are already part of the factory programming, so this is as 'compatible' as it gets. It's basically as though the factory itself made these changes. I would imagine they're aware of it too, as what Toby's done has noticeably improved the overall performance; not just more power. They'd be crazy not to license it and make it standard.

The EC tunes also allow you to reflash the ECU back to stock if you need to take the car in for service. Even if a dealer is friendly to the tune, it's still a good idea to return the ECU to stock in case there are factory updates. If there are, you can download it to the handheld unit that comes with the EC tune, and upload that to Toby. He'll make any necessary changes to your tune and get it back to you. They don't charge for this either, which is also fantastic.

I've had a great experience with Eurocompulsion and their products; can't recommend them highly enough. As for what "doesn't work", I couldn't tell you as I've fortunately not had any experience with that side of things.
 

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This forum is supposed to be free of attitude and judgement. When I asked about power upgrades and trying to avoid warranty issues, I’m only asking what many others are thinking or are considering doing. It’s “our” forum to share these ideas.That’s part of what makes having our car fun. It isn’t about “having the balls” to do anything. And I don’t know what it’s like for Alfa Romeo owners in Germany, but if you read my entire post, you would’ve seen where I said I live in the USA. So your issues aren’t mine.
Thank you for your helpful comments about the rate-limiting hardware issues we may encounter when increasing power in the QV. But check your biases and attitude at the door or maybe you shouldn’t post anymore.


I am sorry but I have to disagree. A forum is mostly about oppinions and very little about actual information (even if most think otherwise). I get my information from first hand sources.

Actually I gave you more actual information not only about the limiting factors of the car (in fact the first component to fail will be the diff because of its clutches) but also about where the information about tuning is logged.
Up to now nobody is offering an all around tuning package including transmission and diff adjustment. (When somebody over here tunes a BMW many people flash Alpina software on them because they cope better with the added power (in case of shiftability and not endurance).

I dont see a reason for having a clone. You cannot change the ECU back for dealers software updates because if the body computer is updated it probably wont recognise an ECU with an older software version.

Witech, the dealers OBD solution is completely cloud based and all ECUs with their serial number and with their serial number are transferred to FCA servers

I still stand to the point that if the first thing you ask if tuning is recognisable dont do it and it is unfair to everybody else when you try to get a tuning failure solved under manufacturers warranty.


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If a dealer is trying hard enough, I suppose they can detect any software changes, but most dealers are so inexperienced with this brand that I doubt they'd even know where or how to look. I chose the Eurocompulsion tune for my Ti after using their V2 intake. I really liked their approach to things, and their reputation convinced me to go with their tune rather than a piggyback or some other type of mod. The fact that they were willing to spend the money to buy a new (and very expensive) state-of-the-art dyno just to get accurate dyno readings of the Giulias, impressed me with how serious and dedicated they are to real results. Right now the QV tune (which apparently contains two ECU modules) is on sale for $2,199 which still isn't cheap, but being able to safely and reliably add 90 hp to a car of this level of sophistication means it wouldn't be cheap anyways. That's actually not a bad price considering it contains two ECU units in addition to their software. Toby does a fantastic job of the software, and the customer support and response is absolutely first class.

In addition to the performance improvements, another great reason to use them is the fact that they are using actual factory software; it's not a hack. They simply change certain settings that are already part of the factory programming, so this is as 'compatible' as it gets. It's basically as though the factory itself made these changes. I would imagine they're aware of it too, as what Toby's done has noticeably improved the overall performance; not just more power. They'd be crazy not to license it and make it standard.

The EC tunes also allow you to reflash the ECU back to stock if you need to take the car in for service. Even if a dealer is friendly to the tune, it's still a good idea to return the ECU to stock in case there are factory updates. If there are, you can download it to the handheld unit that comes with the EC tune, and upload that to Toby. He'll make any necessary changes to your tune and get it back to you. They don't charge for this either, which is also fantastic.

I've had a great experience with Eurocompulsion and their products; can't recommend them highly enough. As for what "doesn't work", I couldn't tell you as I've fortunately not had any experience with that side of things.
What handheld? I was under the impression that the clone was the only way to manage the ecu for warranty or dealership issues. Are you telling me the standard dual ecu package allows for tunes including the stock tune to be loaded prior to dealership visit? If that's true it's a game changer and I don't understand the benefit of the clone then. Please elaborate.
 

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What handheld? I was under the impression that the clone was the only way to manage the ecu for warranty or dealership issues. Are you telling me the standard dual ecu package allows for tunes including the stock tune to be loaded prior to dealership visit? If that's true it's a game changer and I don't understand the benefit of the clone then. Please elaborate.
The Ti tunes are downloaded to a handheld, which you then plug into the car and upload to the ECU. Since I don't have a QV nor have I purchased the tune system for a QV, I don't know the exact process for the tune transfer. Do the two ECU units from EC have their tune, and you swap out the two factory ECU's for them? If that's the case, that's actually faster than the 45+ minute reprogram process on a non-QV using the handheld. It must really take awhile to reprogram two ECU's.

Not sure how they handle factory updates to the stock ECU's if there's no way to download the file and send it to Toby without sending the ECU's to him. I actually had to do that with my ECU because Toby didn't have my version of the factory software in his database. I sent it to him on a Wednesday, and he got it back to me on Friday. A swappable ECU would enable ECU exchanges without having to disable your car.
 

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What handheld? I was under the impression that the clone was the only way to manage the ecu for warranty or dealership issues. Are you telling me the standard dual ecu package allows for tunes including the stock tune to be loaded prior to dealership visit? If that's true it's a game changer and I don't understand the benefit of the clone then. Please elaborate.
The Ti tunes are downloaded to a handheld, which you then plug into the car and upload to the ECU. Since I don't have a QV nor have I purchased the tune system for a QV, I don't know the exact process for the tune transfer. Do the two ECU units from EC have their tune, and you swap out the two factory ECU's for them? If that's the case, that's actually faster than the 45+ minute reprogram process on a non-QV using the handheld. It must really take awhile to reprogram two ECU's.

Not sure how they handle factory updates to the stock ECU's if there's no way to download the file and send it to Toby without sending the ECU's to him. I actually had to do that with my ECU because Toby didn't have my version of the factory software in his database. I sent it to him on a Wednesday, and he got it back to me on Friday. A swappable ECU would enable ECU exchanges without having to disable your car.
Ah ok....the QV tune is quite different....requires an ecu swap...actually two ecus. If you want to retain your factory tune for warranty then you have to have 4 ecus total, hence the $4k clone price tag. I don't know how factory upgrades would be managed on the EC tunes. Since there are actually multiple ecus and control modules I suppose it would depend on what's actually updated. It seems every problematic and along with the 4k price tag a reason I haven't purchased. If it were a 2k handheld flash I'd be all over it.
 

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No chance to have an undetectable tuning. Loging is going on everywhere (bodycomputer, transmission ecu etc.)

And to be honest if people tune their car they should own up to it instead of making everybody else who dont tune their car pay for it under warranty

If you dont have the balls - dont do it.
That said I guess the QV engine is very durable and can cope a good amount more power. The transmission and the diff will be the limiting factors


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I think the logging and potential warranty issues along with easy reversal to preserve said warranty are areas that a less sophisticated chipbox type of product looks better in comparison. As I understand it the devices insert into the harness between sensors and the computer so there’s nothing to log. It's just capturing, altering and relaying the data like it doesn’t exist to fool the computer. It’s crude compared to a good modern remap but for the price they seem to make decent improvement and like I said above they are easily reversible and cost a fraction of other options...
 

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When connecting the witech to your car the serial numbers of all ecus are transfered to FCA so no point in having Clones


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That's the whole purpose of the clones. You retain your factory ecus and swap them in when visiting the dealer.
 

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Ah ok....the QV tune is quite different....requires an ecu swap...actually two ecus. If you want to retain your factory tune for warranty then you have to have 4 ecus total, hence the $4k clone price tag. I don't know how factory upgrades would be managed on the EC tunes. Since there are actually multiple ecus and control modules I suppose it would depend on what's actually updated. It seems every problematic and along with the 4k price tag a reason I haven't purchased. If it were a 2k handheld flash I'd be all over it.
Well right now the QV dual ECU tune is on sale for $2,199. So I guess you keep your factory ECUs for your stock set, and switch them out for the EC tuned ones. Depending on how easy it is to get at the ECUs in a QV, that doesn't sound so bad. The ECU on the Ti takes all of about 5 minutes to remove. The update via the handheld (either with their tune or returning to stock) takes about 45 minutes of you sitting in the car following the prompts.

I don't have any experience with the QV tune, but the Ti tune doesn't just update the horsepower and torque; it improves the overall performance of the engine and trans. Over time as the car has learned the changes, the general performance has steadily gotten better and better. The initial lag when first accelerating is almost gone, and from there on it feels like a different car from when it was stock. I bought the car based on my initial test drive when it was stone stock; if it had performed like it does now... wow.
 

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Ah ok....the QV tune is quite different....requires an ecu swap...actually two ecus. If you want to retain your factory tune for warranty then you have to have 4 ecus total, hence the $4k clone price tag. I don't know how factory upgrades would be managed on the EC tunes. Since there are actually multiple ecus and control modules I suppose it would depend on what's actually updated. It seems every problematic and along with the 4k price tag a reason I haven't purchased. If it were a 2k handheld flash I'd be all over it.
Well right now the QV dual ECU tune is on sale for $2,199. So I guess you keep your factory ECUs for your stock set, and switch them out for the EC tuned ones. Depending on how easy it is to get at the ECUs in a QV, that doesn't sound so bad. The ECU on the Ti takes all of about 5 minutes to remove. The update via the handheld (either with their tune or returning to stock) takes about 45 minutes of you sitting in the car following the prompts.

I don't have any experience with the QV tune, but the Ti tune doesn't just update the horsepower and torque; it improves the overall performance of the engine and trans. Over time as the car has learned the changes, the general performance has steadily gotten better and better. The initial lag when first accelerating is almost gone, and from there on it feels like a different car from when it was stock. I bought the car based on my initial test drive when it was stone stock; if it had performed like it does now... wow.
Nope....the 2k price you have to send them your ecus and they overwrite them. So you do not get to keep your factory tune to swap in.

The 4k clone version you still send them your ecus so they can clone the vin info to an additional set of ecus. But you get back 4 ecus....your original two and two with their tune.
 

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At some point, Alfa will increase the power of both Guilia engines. Do you think they will just re-program the ECU’s or will they also upgrade some engine, transmission, differential, or other components to deal with the increased output?

If you were Alfa Romeo, would you honor warrantee claims made for a Giulia with modified mechanical components? Would you honor warrantee claims made by someone who tried to hide the fact that modifications had been made?

Would you purchase a used Alfa with modified mechanical components? Would you purchase a used Alfa from an owner who attempted to hide from you the fact that modifications had been made?
 

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Nope....the 2k price you have to send them your ecus and they overwrite them. So you do not get to keep your factory tune to swap in.

The 4k clone version you still send them your ecus so they can clone the vin info to an additional set of ecus. But you get back 4 ecus....your original two and two with their tune.
Ah well, that's certainly a different proposition then, isn't it? Might explain why there aren't a flood of reviews from customers talking about their experience with the tune. The thing is, at what point is enough enough? How much power can you actually use if you're not taking your car to the track? With 505 hp to begin with, is it worth $4k to add another 90 hp? I have a Camaro I set up for road course and it has 500 hp. I can hardly use a fraction of that performance on the street. Too much traffic, too many risks, which is why I set it up for track. Unfortunately there aren't any road course tracks in Idaho so the car spends most of it's time in the garage.

With the V2 intake and their P1 tune, my Ti is really good. Since I still have the stock exhaust, I'm guessing that I'm getting about 340 hp with the combo I have (they show 350 hp with intake and exhaust). Based on driving experience, I would estimate that somewhere between 350-380 hp would be optimal for street use. Even as-is, I can't use WOT in the city, but I briefly can when getting onto the freeway. Another 20-40 hp would be just about right; not too much, not too little. I'm expecting the P2 tune will probably add just about that. The P1 tune was with the expectation that the car would be stock otherwise. From what I gather thus far, the P2 tune is going to expect (or even require) at least an intake or exhaust upgrade; both will be optimal. If I can get 360 hp with the P2 update, that will be just about perfect.
 

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^ You have valid points. The QV for street use is sufficient at 505hp. I like to take my cars to the test/tune strip nights, so in that case the extra 100 HP would be fun, as long as the tune is able to translate that HP to the wheels, which judging from the EC dyno numbers it can. It's another reason I'd prefer the EC over the sensor boxes which don't really have dyno results to back their numbers.
 

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At some point, Alfa will increase the power of both Guilia engines. Do you think they will just re-program the ECU’s or will they also upgrade some engine, transmission, differential, or other components to deal with the increased output?

If you were Alfa Romeo, would you honor warrantee claims made for a Giulia with modified mechanical components? Would you honor warrantee claims made by someone who tried to hide the fact that modifications had been made?

Would you purchase a used Alfa with modified mechanical components? Would you purchase a used Alfa from an owner who attempted to hide from you the fact that modifications had been made?
Would you listen to a broken record, over and over again? I don't.
 
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