With such limited sales, those that are unhappy will dilute the pool quicker.
This article does not say what you claim it says. They do want to broaden their market, but the article explicitly states that sedans are out of fashion, but Alfa "believes in them". There's no simple move to the mainstream described here for Alfa.Everyone does realize Alfa does not want to cater to a smaller market right? Sales have never been as good as they wanted from day one. They want to sell more and be more mainstream. Alfa wants to be a BMW.
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Alfa Romeo’s Slow Sales Limited By “Sporty Image” Says Spokesman For Brand With Abysmal Quality Reputation | Carscoops
UK boss says Alfa will move away from relying on emotional appeal to snare more rational buyerswww.carscoops.com
You can interpretation it how you want. The whole sedan thing was only part of the article. Making driver focused emotional purchases is not the direction they want to move.This article does not say what you claim it says. They do want to broaden their market, but the article explicitly states that sedans are out of fashion, but Alfa "believes in them". There's no simple move to the mainstream described here for Alfa.
The bottom line is that sports sedans aren't mainstream, end of story! If Alfa wanted to simply sell more, they wouldn't be making sports cars at all. And Porsche wouldn't sell 911s. There is a formula for profit that doesn't rely on mainstream mass-market products. Alfa may want to broaden its focus, but that doesn't mean that they want to be mainstream, or that they want to be BMW.
Not just sport sedans; ALL sedans arent mainstream; count all the brands that are discontinuing them.. Its an SUV country now. If Tonale is Alfa's direction, count me out. I loved driving the qv I did, but unless they really get behind beefing up their dealer network and quality and commit to providing a premium experience, I may have to rethink the purchase of a '24 qv Ive been planning on.This article does not say what you claim it says. They do want to broaden their market, but the article explicitly states that sedans are out of fashion, but Alfa "believes in them". There's no simple move to the mainstream described here for Alfa.
The bottom line is that sports sedans aren't mainstream, end of story! If Alfa wanted to simply sell more, they wouldn't be making sports cars at all. And Porsche wouldn't sell 911s. There is a formula for profit that doesn't rely on mainstream mass-market products. Alfa may want to broaden its focus, but that doesn't mean that they want to be mainstream, or that they want to be BMW.
There's an ez cure for thatReading this thread makes my head hurt.
The brand will turn into what every other brand is. Most of the sales come from the SUVs and they will make performance variants of the models. They are making a all electric 1,000HP AWD QV sedan for next generation Giulia. I would also assume all the German competitors are doing the same as well. But hopefully the Alfa will look better and drive better.Not just sport sedans; ALL sedans arent mainstream; count all the brands that are discontinuing them.. Its an SUV country now. If Tonale is Alfa's direction, count me out. I loved driving the qv I did, but unless they really get behind beefing up their dealer network and quality and commit to providing a premium experience, I may have to rethink the purchase of a '24 qv Ive been planning on.
Makes sense, but your decision should not stem from observations of the Tonale. You should want a successful Tonale, to ensure viability of the brand and a strong dealer network... to service your Giulia!Not just sport sedans; ALL sedans arent mainstream; count all the brands that are discontinuing them.. Its an SUV country now. If Tonale is Alfa's direction, count me out. I loved driving the qv I did, but unless they really get behind beefing up their dealer network and quality and commit to providing a premium experience, I may have to rethink the purchase of a '24 qv Ive been planning on.
Good take, I think the Porsche business model could also work here. That would be the more ideal play for us. But we shall see what happens.Makes sense, but your decision should not stem from observations of the Tonale. You should want a successful Tonale, to ensure viability of the brand and a strong dealer network... to service your Giulia!
It's understood in the industry that the Cayenne saved Porsche, so they could continue to make 911s. It's no different for Alfa here. In an ideal world, Alfa will add mainstream models like the Tonale, to create sales, allowing them to make cars like the Giulia that fill a niche and remain profitable through economies of scale. This is where @Mspider has it wrong. Selling to the mainstream is not the only formula for success, and a product strategy can be diversified and not just monolithic. They can have a greater appeal to the mainstream with Tonale and other models, while allowing cars like the Giulia to remain niche and avoid "BMW-ification".
Edit, added: In reality, where I hope Alfa goes is not the direction of BMW, but rather the direction of Porsche. Nothing in their communications indicates this can't be the case. "Appealing to more mainstream buyers" can be done through adding more mainstream models, not necessarily mainstreaming all their models. A la Porsche.
Honestly, I could care less if the Plaid does 6 mins around Nring. It's the guy attached to the brand that I despise and likely that's not going to change anytime soon. Also, this is IMHO, just every time I see a Tesla, which is about as common as an iPhone around here, I just think to myself here comes another lemming. I get it, if you're not into cars, then it's like buying a toaster and what Camry was well known for many years but unlike Camry, Tesla doesn't have the build quality or reliability so there's that...
You might as well get a Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing.Completely agree. In addition, and this is somewhat subjective, their design language has gone off the rails. When I saw that the G87 M2 would not have the giant beaver teeth, I was much relieved.. However, then I saw how they totally ruined what was generally heralded as a beautiful while aggressive design in the F87 by trying to give it a modern interpretation of the E30 series, which in my view, failed miserably. And theyve apparently given up any thought of a light tossable car at 3800 lbs; Hell, its as heavy as the M3 now. To me it looks like a kit car after raiding the m performance parts bin. Slapped on plastics, bulges which arent coherent, etc. Anybody seen Frank Stephenson's (car designer extraordinaire) commentary on the current 2 series in general?
So, I started considering the G80/82 series.. . Went to look at and, yikes, it's gotten huge or is that my imagination.. So aside from the beaver teeth, its now HUGE; 189" long. And heavy.
Mechanically, the steering is as heavy and dull as ever. The sound isnt great, but yes, its very fast on a track.. Oh yea, the interior is pretty and it has good tech.. but as a driver's car, I dont think it compares very well with the QV.
Although it's more expensive than the QV, but still less than comparable BMWs and Mercedes, I think the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing would offer an enjoyable driving experience in the next weight class. Or the CT4-V Blackwing, with a little less power and acceleration.I have driven both and the G80 feels like it has a lot more power. and its not like the driving dynamics are terrible either. The pervious gen M3 kind of sucked in my opinion and I would gladly buy the QV over that gen.
When I say common buyer I guess I should have said a buyer in this price range and segment. The G80 sells better in this particular market segment. Doesn`t matter what the F-150 does in sales. I thought context would be enough, but I will be more direct when making a point. We are really only talking about the QV and direct competitors. Which are luxury performance sedans between a certain price point. The G80 M3 is a direct competitor and it does some things better than the Alfa and some things worse. It depends on what your personal taste is. I just like seeing things from both sides. I am a car enthusiast and bounce around to different brands throughout the year. I am not a Alfa only enthusiast like I am sure people here are. I am giving you the response you would see from the BMW forums. But I won`t press you more on this topic.
I do think the QV has a more appealing visual design both exterior and interior. Plus the driving dynamics in a lot of ways is more ideal as well. I hate the new screens all the BMWs have. I also believe the QV will age a lot better than the G80 M3 as well in the years to come.
I do think the next generation Giulia will be a lot bigger and a lot faster.
Totally agree, seems like Cadillac offers a decent car for the money. Of course most European car buyers would be close minded the to thought out buying one.Although it's more expensive than the QV, but still less than comparable BMWs and Mercedes, I think the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing what offer an enjoyable driving experience in the next weight class. Or the CT4-V Blackwing, with a little less power and acceleration.
Totally agree, seems like Cadillac offers a decent car for the money. Of course most European car buyers would be close minded the to thought out buying one.
According to most reviews, the Cadillac is a better driving experience the European cars, except, of course for Alfa. I traded in a 2017 Cadillac CTS-V for my 2019 Giulia QV. The Guilia feels a lot lighter and more nimble compared to the Cadillac, because it is lighter and smaller, with quicker steering. The problem with Cadillac was it had some body fit and finish problems from the beginning, and also a torque converter problem. I was willing to try it again with 2018 model which was heavily discounted at that time in 2019, and I just seen a a new one just as I would order it come in the service and I examined it and it seemed perfect, so I ordered one and when I came in six weeks later it had pretty bad hood and fender alignment, uneven gaps, a misaligned drivers door they took more forced to close than the others (that problem occurred on the front passenger door night 2017), but also when I test drove it under modern acceleration there was a clunking of the transmission, which I never had in my 2017, so I wasn't about to trade in a car for a new one that was worse. I would have to think twice about getting another Cadillac because of the quality control issues I experienced. But still, if one could avoid those issues, its an impressive car, especially for the money.Totally agree, seems like Cadillac offers a decent car for the money. Of course most European car buyers would be close minded the to thought out buying one.
Automatic transmissions has always been a problem in American cars. Luckily they had manual options in the past. But I could see the engine making up for a lot of the problems. The sound and power of that supercharged V8 is something. I would be open minded to at least driving one. I also have a GM employee family discount, which would help on cost haha.According to most reviews, the Cadillac is a better driving experience the European cars, except, of course for Alfa. I traded in a 2017 Cadillac CTS-V for my 2019 Giulia QV. The Guilia feels a lot lighter and more nimble compared to the Cadillac, because it is lighter and smaller, with quicker steering. The problem with Cadillac was it had some body fit and finish problems from the beginning, and also a torque converter problem. I was willing to try it again with 2018 model which was heavily discounted at that time in 2019, and I just seen a a new one just as I would order it come in the service and I examined it and it seemed perfect, so I ordered one and when I came in six weeks later it had pretty bad hood and fender alignment, uneven gaps, a misaligned drivers door they took more forced to close than the others (that problem occurred on the front passenger door night 2017), but also when I test drove it under modern acceleration there was a clunking of the transmission, which I ever had in my 2017, so I wasn't about to trade in a car for a new one that was worse. I would have to think twice about getting another Cadillac because of the quality control issues I experienced. But still, if one could avoid those issues, its an impressive car, especially for the money.
If the upcoming EV Giulia drives similar to the current one then I'd be a potential customer.I wouldn’t expect anything great from Alfa again. The tonale tells you what direction the brand is going. ⬇. With Sergio went the brand. The QV will be Alfas last pure drivers car. Imagine the gremlins an electric Alfa would have smh. The only shot imo is to go hybrid like SF90.
I'll give credit where it's due, the G-chassis 2 and 3 series are pretty solid cars to drive. I've driven all variants including the M340 on autocross. I had an E90 and swore off the brand when the F-chassis came but these two models have somewhat impressed me. The X3M/X4M I also enjoyed. I've yet to drive the G80 M3 but I'm sure it's great too...just no QVCompletely agree. In addition, and this is somewhat subjective, their design language has gone off the rails. When I saw that the G87 M2 would not have the giant beaver teeth, I was much relieved.. However, then I saw how they totally ruined what was generally heralded as a beautiful while aggressive design in the F87 by trying to give it a modern interpretation of the E30 series, which in my view, failed miserably. And theyve apparently given up any thought of a light tossable car at 3800 lbs; Hell, its as heavy as the M3 now. To me it looks like a kit car after raiding the m performance parts bin. Slapped on plastics, bulges which arent coherent, etc. Anybody seen Frank Stephenson's (car designer extraordinaire) commentary on the current 2 series in general?
So, I started considering the G80/82 series.. . Went to look at and, yikes, it's gotten huge or is that my imagination.. So aside from the beaver teeth, its now HUGE; 189" long. And heavy.
Mechanically, the steering is as heavy and dull as ever. The sound isnt great, but yes, its very fast on a track.. Oh yea, the interior is pretty and it has good tech.. but as a driver's car, I dont think it compares very well with the QV.
I think part of the problem right now is that a lot of electric cars on the market kind of suck. They don`t even make a 2 door EV(besides a supercar) yet. Most of them are ugly and have 200 miles of range. Tesla cars have gotten so common as well.If the upcoming EV Giulia drives similar to the current one then I'd be a potential customer.
But hard to let go of ICE. I want a Porsche 911 eventually. And my next car after the Giulia will definitely be a Boxster S or M2.
Not trying to nitpick, but I believe Mini offers an EV 2 door.I think part of the problem right now is that a lot of electric cars on the market kind of suck. They don`t even make a 2 door EV(besides a supercar) yet. Most of them are ugly and have 200 miles of range. Tesla cars have gotten so common as well.
You are correct, but its not even out yet. The market right now has zero 2 door EVs for sale. Besides maybe one supercar costing 2 million +.Not trying to nitpick, but I believe Mini offers an EV 2 door.
I agree. But if the price isn’t under 100k they might as well just save the time and money of development. If I’m dropping 100k plus it’s definitely not on an Alfa.I think part of the problem right now is that a lot of electric cars on the market kind of suck. They don`t even make a 2 door EV(besides a supercar) yet. Most of them are ugly and have 200 miles of range. Tesla cars have gotten so common as well.
I think a EV Giulia sedan with AWD 1,000HP with classic Alfa styling will be a pretty cool car. Although the sound and driving characteristics of a gas performance car will probably remain sought after for a while.