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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Two times I had my car go into thei Christmas tree of death CEL lightshow. Tried everything to make it go away including disconnecting the battery and using my cheap code scanner but had to go to the dealership both times and have them clear it. They squeezed me in and didn’t have enough time to really look at it but they didn’t know what was causing it.

Both times it happened when I was working on the brakes and both times the key fob was either in my pocket or inside the car. When the key fob is near the car it’s constantly communicating with the car. I figure that when the brake pad wear indicator sensor wires were disconnected and the key fob was communicating with the car that it caused this weird problem.
Since then I have changed my front and rear brake pads once and at another time flipped the front brake pads once and did not have the problem at all because I put the key fob 30 feet away.
I was speaking with the manager of Les Schwab tires store and he said they always put the key fob away from the car and they have have had problems too if it is left in the car with other makes.
 

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The vehicle's electronics are always "ON" so long as the 12V battery is connected and the key is within radio range. And sensors are not meant to be "hot swappable." I know I wouldn't work on an advanced brake-by-wire system without following the manufacturer's service procedure. Whether you're replacing just the pads or rotors, the first or second step in the service instructions is to disconnect the negative battery terminal. So the problem isn't the location of the key fob per se, but rather you didn't follow the approved service procedure.

2018 - GA - ALFA GIULIA - 2.0L 280HP I4 DI TURBO ENGINE

05 - Brakes/05 - Brakes, Base/Hydraulic/Mechanical/ROTOR, Brake/Removal and Installation

REAR BASE

REMOVAL

NOTE: When replacing the rear brake disc, connect the scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC), select "ABS"

select “MAINTENANCE MODE”.
1. Disconnect and isolate the negative battery cable.

2. Raise and support the vehicle (Refer to 04 - Vehicle Quick Reference/Hoisting/Standard Procedure).

3. Remove the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

4. Disconnect the brake pad wear sensor electrical harness connector (1).

5. Disconnect the electrical harness connector for the Electric Parking Brake (EPB) actuator on the rear brake caliper.

6. Remove the rear brake caliper retaining clip (1).

NOTE: Secure the rear brake caliper to the suspension spring, taking care not to damage the hose.

7. Remove the protective cap from the rear brake caliper mounting bolts.

8. Remove the brake caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolts (1a) and move the rear brake caliper (1b) aside, complete with oil hose.

9. Remove the inner and outer brake pads (1).

10. Remove the brake caliper adapter bracket to knuckle mounting bolts (1a) and remove the bracket (1b) from the vehicle.

11. Remove the rotor to hub and bearing mounting bolt (1a) and remove the rear brake disc (1b) from the vehicle.

INSTALLATION
NOTE: Clean the hub face to remove any dirt or corrosion where the rotor mounts.

1. Install the brake rotor and install the Brake Rotor to Hub Bolt - Rear bolt and tighten to the proper (Torque Specifications)

2. Install the brake caliper adapter bracket (1a) and install the brake caliper adapter bracket to knuckle mounting bolts (1b) and tighten to the proper (Torque Specifications).

NOTE: The brake pad and wear sensor must be fitted from inside the wheel.

3. Install the inner and outer brake pads onto to caliper adapter bracket.

4. Install the rear brake caliper (1a), complete with bake lines, and tighten the caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolts (1b) to the proper (Torque Specifications).

5. Install the protection caps of the above screws.

6. Engage the clip securing the brake caliper to the bracket.

7. Connect the electric parking brake (EPB) actuator electrical harness connection on the rear brake caliper.

8. Connect the brake pad wear sensor electrical harness connection.

9. Install the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

10. Remove the supports and lower the vehicle.

11. Connect the negative battery cable.

12. Connect the scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC), go to “ABS” control unit in the “miscellaneous functions”
menu, go to the “Electric Park Brake (EPB)” and perform the “ASSEMBLY CHECK” procedure.
 

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Here is the service procedure for the rear brake pads.

2018 - GA - ALFA GIULIA - 2.0L 280HP I4 DI TURBO ENGINE
05 - Brakes/05 - Brakes, Base/Hydraulic/Mechanical/PADS, Brake, Rear/Removal and Installation

BASE

REMOVAL

NOTE: Connect a scan tool, go to “ABS” control unit in the “miscellaneous functions” menu and go to the “Electric Park Brake (EPB)” , then start the “MAINTENANCE MODE” procedure.

1. Raise and support the vehicle (Refer to 04 - Vehicle Quick Reference/Hoisting/Standard Procedure).

2. Disconnect and isolate the negative battery cable.

3. Remove the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

4. Disconnect the brake pad wear sensor electrical harness connection.

5. Disconnect the electric parking brake (EPB) actuator electrical connection (1) on the rear brake caliper.

6. Remove the rear brake caliper retaining clip (1).

7. Remove the protective cap from the rear brake caliper upper mounting bolt (1).

8. Remove the upper caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolt (1).

9. Rotate the rear brake caliper on the lower pin.

10. Remove the inner brake pad (1a), complete with spring (1b) and electrical harness (1c) of the brake pad wear sensor.

11. Remove the outer brake pad (1).

INSTALLATION
NOTE: Carefully clean the pad seat area using suitable materials and products (e.g. a moist cloth).
NOTE: Do not use products which could damage rubber parts.
NOTE: Check that there is no damage to the pistons or the dust boots.
NOTE: The brake pad wear sensor must be installed on the inboard side of the rotor.

1. Install the NEW brake pads.

2. Install the brake caliper, engaging the brake pads in their housings and tighten the upper caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolt to the proper (Torque Specifications).

3. Install the protective cap to the rear brake caliper upper mounting bolt.

4. Engage the clip securing the brake caliper to the bracket.

5. Connect the electric parking brake (EPB) actuator electrical harness connector on the rear brake caliper.

6. Connect the brake pad wear sensor electrical connector.

7. Install the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

8. Connect the negative battery cable.

9. Pump brake pedal several times to set pads to caliper and brake rotor.

10. Remove the supports and lower the vehicle.

11. Connect the scan tool to the vehicle, select ABS in the “miscellaneous functions” select “electric park brake” then start the “ASSEMBLY CHECK” procedure.

12. Perform the brake system bleed (Refer to 05 - Brakes, Base/Standard Procedure).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The vehicle's electronics are always "ON" so long as the 12V battery is connected and the key is within radio range. And sensors are not meant to be "hot swappable." I know I wouldn't work on an advanced brake-by-wire system without following the manufacturer's service procedure. Whether you're replacing just the pads or rotors, the first or second step in the service instructions is to disconnect the negative battery terminal. So the problem isn't the location of the key fob per se, but rather you didn't follow the approved service procedure.

2018 - GA - ALFA GIULIA - 2.0L 280HP I4 DI TURBO ENGINE

05 - Brakes/05 - Brakes, Base/Hydraulic/Mechanical/ROTOR, Brake/Removal and Installation

REAR BASE

REMOVAL

NOTE: When replacing the rear brake disc, connect the scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC), select "ABS"

select “MAINTENANCE MODE”.
1. Disconnect and isolate the negative battery cable.

2. Raise and support the vehicle (Refer to 04 - Vehicle Quick Reference/Hoisting/Standard Procedure).

3. Remove the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

4. Disconnect the brake pad wear sensor electrical harness connector (1).

5. Disconnect the electrical harness connector for the Electric Parking Brake (EPB) actuator on the rear brake caliper.

6. Remove the rear brake caliper retaining clip (1).

NOTE: Secure the rear brake caliper to the suspension spring, taking care not to damage the hose.

7. Remove the protective cap from the rear brake caliper mounting bolts.

8. Remove the brake caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolts (1a) and move the rear brake caliper (1b) aside, complete with oil hose.

9. Remove the inner and outer brake pads (1).

10. Remove the brake caliper adapter bracket to knuckle mounting bolts (1a) and remove the bracket (1b) from the vehicle.

11. Remove the rotor to hub and bearing mounting bolt (1a) and remove the rear brake disc (1b) from the vehicle.

INSTALLATION
NOTE: Clean the hub face to remove any dirt or corrosion where the rotor mounts.

1. Install the brake rotor and install the Brake Rotor to Hub Bolt - Rear bolt and tighten to the proper (Torque Specifications)

2. Install the brake caliper adapter bracket (1a) and install the brake caliper adapter bracket to knuckle mounting bolts (1b) and tighten to the proper (Torque Specifications).

NOTE: The brake pad and wear sensor must be fitted from inside the wheel.

3. Install the inner and outer brake pads onto to caliper adapter bracket.

4. Install the rear brake caliper (1a), complete with bake lines, and tighten the caliper to caliper adapter bracket mounting bolts (1b) to the proper (Torque Specifications).

5. Install the protection caps of the above screws.

6. Engage the clip securing the brake caliper to the bracket.

7. Connect the electric parking brake (EPB) actuator electrical harness connection on the rear brake caliper.

8. Connect the brake pad wear sensor electrical harness connection.

9. Install the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22 - Tires and Wheels/Removal and Installation).

10. Remove the supports and lower the vehicle.

11. Connect the negative battery cable.

12. Connect the scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC), go to “ABS” control unit in the “miscellaneous functions”
menu, go to the “Electric Park Brake (EPB)” and perform the “ASSEMBLY CHECK” procedure.
The problem with your argument is you make assumptions. And I’m not sure you have experience working on this car either so that’s a bit of armchair quarterbacking.
Question have you ever actually disconnected the battery terminal on your QV car? Do you know how long it takes to make the limp mode and all of those CEL lights that come on go away without a WiTech scanner?
Well I do I’ve actually do as I’ve done work a lot in the field on my car. Also I was an Alfa mechanic at one time and I know when to disconnect the battery terminals based on the service manual and also real world experience.
At the track you have limited time and sessions. When you disconnect the battery from your car you have to start it and drive it and start it and drive it at slow speed because is in limp mode with all of the CEL lights on over and over for a long time to make them finally go out. Bottom line it takes a long time to do it. The time for it to go out actually varies and sometimes it seems like it takes forever.
Another assumption I don’t think you should think that the service manual is completely thorough and accurate. Maybe after this platform has been out for a while they will make it more accurate and logical. For example do you know the service manual says you are to never jack up the car and it’s only supposed to be done on a lift?! I suppose you think I should carry a portable lift with me to the track lol?
Also I did a complete 4 wheel brake job in the field without the CEL lights coming on in either of those two ways so obviously I found out the in field solution but you don’t mention that.
Also your own words, you say you have to follow these instructions but your first instructions are “connect a scan tool”. Do you know how much a WiTech scan tool is? It’s a lot. Do you know that there is high a monthly charge for it? (FYI they do have a three day $50 fee now yeah!) Do you know that scan tool does not even work unless it is hooked up to the Internet? Well I do know these things because I’ve actually researched it. And I’m actually buying one.
I put out these posts to help people that are actually working on their cars in the field or at their home. Not for the people who take them to the dealership for this work. And if you’re the kind of person who only has the dealership do the work that’s just fine but please don’t criticize me for finding ways to work on my car without going to the dealership or with out a scan tool.
If the DIY info here is not appreciated I might not share it here anymore.
 

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I’m not sure you have experience working on this car either.
That is correct. I've not done a brake job on my car and I don't plan to. I am not an expert on these cars, just an enthusiast like you. If I did plan to service my brakes I know I'd do my best to follow the recommended service procedure and not try to take short cuts or invent workarounds because I don't happen to have the time or the right tools to do the job properly. But now that you've added context, I understand why you have a special need or desire to circumvent the recommended procedures.

Question have you ever actually disconnected the battery terminal on your QV car? Do you know how long it takes to make the limp mode and all of those CEL lights that come on go away without a WiTech scanner?
I don't have a QV. So no. And I haven't disconnected the battery on my Ti because I haven't had the need to do so. But I do know that Tech Authority describes the recommended service procedure for disconnecting and connecting the battery, the Battery Distribution Unit (BDU), the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS), etc. Apparently, the IBS relearn process requires one start and at least 4 hours of quiescent time (vehicle off, electrical system asleep). I did not know that. And I can see how this might derail your typical track-side brake pad swap.

For example do you know the service manual says you are to never jack up the car and it’s only supposed to be done on a lift?! I suppose you think I should carry a portable lift with me to the track lol?
Yes I am aware. I imagine it won't be long until someone on the forum devises a relatively safe way to raise the car in a home garage environment using a typical hydraulic floor jack and padded jack stands. Air jacks would be nice, wouldn't it? They cut into footwell space, though. Fine for a race car. Not so groovy for a dual-purpose car.

I put out these posts to help people that are actually working on their cars in the field not taking them to the dealership.
If they’re not appreciated I might not share them on this forum anymore.
That's all well and good. Don't let me stop you. Carry on.
 

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The problem with your argument is you make assumptions. And I’m not sure you have experience working on this car either so that’s a bit of armchair quarterbacking.
Question have you ever actually disconnected the battery terminal on your QV car? Do you know how long it takes to make the limp mode and all of those CEL lights that come on go away without a WiTech scanner?
Well I do I’ve actually do as I’ve done work a lot in the field on my car. Also I was an Alfa mechanic at one time and I know when to disconnect the battery terminals based on the service manual and also real world experience.
At the track you have limited time and sessions. When you disconnect the battery from your car you have to start it and drive it and start it and drive it at slow speed because is in limp mode with all of the CEL lights on over and over for a long time to make them finally go out. Bottom line it takes a long time to do it. The time for it to go out actually varies and sometimes it seems like it takes forever.
Another assumption I don’t think you should think that the service manual is completely thorough and accurate. Maybe after this platform has been out for a while they will make it more accurate and logical. For example do you know the service manual says you are to never jack up the car and it’s only supposed to be done on a lift?! I suppose you think I should carry a portable lift with me to the track lol?
Also I did a complete 4 wheel brake job in the field without the CEL lights coming on in either of those two ways so obviously I found out the in field solution but you don’t mention that.
Also your own words, you say you have to follow these instructions but your first instructions are “connect a scan tool”. Do you know how much a WiTech scan tool is? It’s a lot. Do you know that there is high a monthly charge for it? (FYI they do have a three day $50 fee now yeah!) Do you know that scan tool does not even work unless it is hooked up to the Internet? Well I do know these things because I’ve actually researched it. And I’m actually buying one.
I put out these posts to help people that are actually working on their cars in the field or at their home. Not for the people who take them to the dealership for this work. And if you’re the kind of person who only has the dealership do the work that’s just fine but please don’t criticize me for finding ways to work on my car without going to the dealership or with out a scan tool.
If the DIY info here is not appreciated I might not share it here anymore.
Seriously?

He provided a helpful resource and you write this pretentious response busting his balls -- all because he suggested that you didn't follow the manufacturer's service protocol (which you didn't).

Not cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I’m not sure you have experience working on this car either.
That is correct. I've not done a brake job on my car and I don't plan to. I am not an expert on these cars, just an enthusiast like you. If I did plan to service my brakes I know I'd do my best to follow the recommended service procedure and not try to take short cuts or invent workarounds because I don't happen to have the time or the right tools to do the job properly. But now that you've added context, I understand why you have a special need or desire to circumvent the recommended procedures.

Question have you ever actually disconnected the battery terminal on your QV car? Do you know how long it takes to make the limp mode and all of those CEL lights that come on go away without a WiTech scanner?
I don't have a QV. So no. And I haven't disconnected the battery on my Ti because I haven't had the need to do so. But I do know that Tech Authority describes the recommended service procedure for disconnecting and connecting the battery, the Battery Distribution Unit (BDU), the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS), etc. Apparently, the IBS relearn process requires one start and at least 4 hours of quiescent time (vehicle off, electrical system asleep). I did not know that. And I can see how this might derail your typical track-side brake pad swap.

For example do you know the service manual says you are to never jack up the car and it’s only supposed to be done on a lift?! I suppose you think I should carry a portable lift with me to the track lol?
Yes I am aware. I imagine it won't be long until someone on the forum devises a relatively safe way to raise the car in a home garage environment using a typical hydraulic floor jack and padded jack stands. Air jacks would be nice, wouldn't it? They cut into footwell space, though. Fine for a race car. Not so groovy for a dual-purpose car.

I put out these posts to help people that are actually working on their cars in the field not taking them to the dealership.
If they’re not appreciated I might not share them on this forum anymore.
That's all well and good. Don't let me stop you. Carry on.
Hey thanks. I have just spent so much time and misery on this car because unless you are very careful and think things out and through you have to have that special scan tool with you and the internet with you or you are totally screwed and you have to wait until you drive it in limp mode to the nearest dealership which I’ve done twice now. And I just got a pm from someone who had the same thing happen at some performance shop when they were bleeding the brakes.
And the manager at my local Les Schwab Tire Center says they do not have this scan tool and they do not disconnect the battery and they always put the key fobs 30 feet away.
New complicated cars are well....complicated!
FYI Foxwell says in July they will have a scan tool for the Giulia that does not require the Internet. But it’s doubtful that it will clear all codes.
Anyway thanks for the post sorry if I was a bit strong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Seriously?

He provided a helpful resource and you write this pretentious response busting his balls -- all because he suggested that you didn't follow the manufacturer's service protocol (which you didn't).

Not cool.[/QUOTE]

Come on Kam, aren’t we passed this?
FYI everyone else we have a history.
Kam I’m not going to grace your question with an answer but please remember we both like even love Alfas. And we both are good drivers at the track. We have things in common. I sincerely wish you the best and we’re sure to see each other at some event and I know your name and what you look like and I’m going to come up to you with a smile and introduce myself. So please let’s keep it civil remember we have things in common. Thanks
 

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Two times I had my car go into thei Christmas tree of death CEL lightshow. Tried everything to make it go away including disconnecting the battery and using my cheap code scanner but had to go to the dealership both times and have them clear it. They squeezed me in and didn’t have enough time to really look at it but they didn’t know what was causing it.

Both times it happened when I was working on the brakes and both times the key fob was either in my pocket or inside the car. When the key fob is near the car it’s constantly communicating with the car. I figure that when the brake pad wear indicator sensor wires were disconnected and the key fob was communicating with the car that it caused this weird problem.
Since then I have changed my front and rear brake pads once and at another time flipped the front brake pads once and did not have the problem at all because I put the key fob 30 feet away.
I was speaking with the manager of Les Schwab tires store and he said they always put the key fob away from the car and they have have had problems too if it is left in the car with other makes.

I seemingly had this very issue a couple weeks ago. In preparation for a track day, I had my performance shop attempt a brake flush and my car lit up like a Christmas tree as well. I know they did not have the Witech tool, and they probably didn't know about keeping the key fob away from the vehicle. So I had to rush to the dealership for support.

Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.

I think it benefits us all to share practical knowledge and DIY (what works, what doesn't) before we really get to state where it simply won't be possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Two times I had my car go into thei Christmas tree of death CEL lightshow. Tried everything to make it go away including disconnecting the battery and using my cheap code scanner but had to go to the dealership both times and have them clear it. They squeezed me in and didn’t have enough time to really look at it but they didn’t know what was causing it.

Both times it happened when I was working on the brakes and both times the key fob was either in my pocket or inside the car. When the key fob is near the car it’s constantly communicating with the car. I figure that when the brake pad wear indicator sensor wires were disconnected and the key fob was communicating with the car that it caused this weird problem.
Since then I have changed my front and rear brake pads once and at another time flipped the front brake pads once and did not have the problem at all because I put the key fob 30 feet away.
I was speaking with the manager of Les Schwab tires store and he said they always put the key fob away from the car and they have have had problems too if it is left in the car with other makes.

I seemingly had this very issue a couple weeks ago. In preparation for a track day, I had my performance shop attempt a brake flush and my car lit up like a Christmas tree as well. I know they did not have the Witech tool, and they probably didn't know about keeping the key fob away from the vehicle. So I had to rush to the dealership for support.

Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.

I think it benefits us all to share practical knowledge and DIY (what works, what doesn't) before we really get to state where it simply won't be possible.
Exactly! So you went through that misery too. That’s why I feel this grass roots DIY information put on this forum is valuable.
The busiest auto repair shops like Les Schwab Tires already know to keep the key fob away from the car because they’ve had things like that happen too many times.
But I would guess my local race shop which is excellent does not know that yet. But I am going to share what I learned with them. And I’m actually going to share what I learned with my Alfa dealership service manager and technician in case they do not know that. Seems like that information should be in the service manual! Maybe it is.
My local Les Schwab does not own that tool nor are they going to buy one and when they do brake jobs they don’t disconnect the battery either they just keep the key fob away like I did. Seems there’s all kinds of very knowledgeable experienced people not following the manufactures service protocol lol!

Very interesting point you make on the Right To Service. I wonder what Teslas take is on that?
 

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New complicated cars are well....complicated!
Quoted for truth! You can't even perform simple maintenance tasks anymore like rotate the tires, change the oil, replace the battery or worn brake pads without jumping through hoops.

Anyway thanks for the post sorry if I was a bit strong.
With a little more context given I totally understand where you're coming from now. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. It's all good man.
 

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Very interesting point you make on the Right To Service. I wonder what Teslas take is on that?
Yeah I heard Right to Repair is a serious issue on Tesla's. I believe the shop needs specialized equipment even to make any adjustments to body panels. I think I heard something along the lines that the sensors even take the thickness of the paint into consideration. So it's pretty much an impossible task.

As much as I love technology (it's my trade and it affords me to do the things I love), I'm not quite ready for it to take over all aspects of my transportation.
 

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Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.
The tools are costly but they are available to the aftermarket so shouldn't infringe on Right to Repair. No one ever said repairs had to be affordable. The wiTECH Secure microPod II hardware interface is $1,850. To eliminate the market for cheaper but unauthorized knock-off clone devices, only officially licensed and properly registered microPod II interfaces will work with wiTECH software. I don't know much about other SAE J2534 devices.

Then you need a wiTECH 2.0 subscription. The annual subscription costs $1600, monthly subscription is $200, a 3 day subscription is $50. There may also be other fees for software downloads. For instance, to download an Infotainment update or a module activation code. I don't know as I've never done it myself. But I've read that vehicle security including key programming requires purchase of the needed code or PIN from www.techauthority.com through the MOPAR Key Code section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.
The tools are costly but they are available to the aftermarket so shouldn't infringe on Right to Repair. No one ever said repairs had to be affordable. The wiTECH Secure microPod II hardware interface is $1,850. To eliminate the market for cheaper but unauthorized knock-off clone devices, only officially licensed and properly registered microPod II interfaces will work with wiTECH software. I don't know much about other SAE J2534 devices.

Then you need a wiTECH 2.0 subscription. The annual subscription costs $1600, monthly subscription is $200, a 3 day subscription is $50. There may also be other fees for software downloads. For instance, to download an Infotainment update or a module activation code. I don't know as I've never done it myself. But I've read that vehicle security including key programming requires purchase of the needed code or PIN from www.techauthority.com through the MOPAR Key Code section.
I actually enjoy wrenching on cars for things that are not too complicated and that I can still do. Mostly brake pads, rotors, tire changes, mods I have done and yanking things out that get stuck underneath my car at the track and reattaching panels lol. For some reason I actually end up working on other peoples cars too! Not too long ago I came across my friend working on his brakes and I had to tell him he’s was turning the wrench the wrong way and also turning the wrong bolt Ha ha. And it was a big suspension bolt he was really huffing and puffing on it instead of the caliper bolt. Hey he is 70 so give him a brake!

I’m getting a deal on the WiTech system initial price and i’ll only do the $50 for three day thing when I need it. I don’t think I’ll have to pay anything more than that because I just need the basic functions to clear codes and diagnose problem. For anything like module updates or downloads or key programming I’ll just go to the dealership. Expensive but as I have found out when I need it it’s worth it!
I have yet to be really burned by it but it but I could see myself possibly at the track not being to get out of some limp mode until I go back to the dealership. But my Giulia QV is my back up track car I normally track my modded 4C. Thank God that 4C car does not have these problems but it does have a Christmas tree of death light show also. But you are usually able to clear that with a cheap code scanner or just disconnecting the battery. I’m going to carry the WiTech in the Giulia trunk on out-of-town trips just in case and I can use my iPhone as a Wi-Fi hotspot. Kind of sad that I feel I have to do that but I push the car much harder than most people do so i’m much more likely to have a problem. Funny thing is as the more I learn the less I think I’ll need it.

So if any of you find yourself in need of clearing a code to get out of that limp mode you can drive to Spokane as I am open 24/7. Overtime rates will apply.

But I am offering to download Apple CarPlay onto any model Giulia!
 

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The tools are costly but they are available to the aftermarket so shouldn't infringe on Right to Repair. No one ever said repairs had to be affordable. The wiTECH Secure microPod II hardware interface is $1,850. To eliminate the market for cheaper but unauthorized knock-off clone devices, only officially licensed and properly registered microPod II interfaces will work with wiTECH software. I don't know much about other SAE J2534 devices.

Then you need a wiTECH 2.0 subscription. The annual subscription costs $1600, monthly subscription is $200, a 3 day subscription is $50. There may also be other fees for software downloads. For instance, to download an Infotainment update or a module activation code. I don't know as I've never done it myself. But I've read that vehicle security including key programming requires purchase of the needed code or PIN from www.techauthority.com through the MOPAR Key Code section.
exactly what ^^^^ said right to repair USED to refer to technical info/software etc that was marque specific and you could only get it from said marque...they USED to not make it available to independent shops then they passed a law...didn't say it couldn't be cost prohibitive :grin2:....NYS did that to local shops when they changed the State Inspection Process a while back...the new equip was some silly number and many indies could not or did not want to make the investment for a $17 bill....
My QV will be seeing the dealer for any/all warranty work...and that's about it....will bring it to my indie when it needs its first major service...
The days of analog cars are long gone....and kudos to those who believe they can still work on them....
 

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I seemingly had this very issue a couple weeks ago. In preparation for a track day, I had my performance shop attempt a brake flush and my car lit up like a Christmas tree as well. I know they did not have the Witech tool, and they probably didn't know about keeping the key fob away from the vehicle. So I had to rush to the dealership for support.

Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.

I think it benefits us all to share practical knowledge and DIY (what works, what doesn't) before we really get to state where it simply won't be possible.
All of this concerns me slightly, since I had a third party shop (Sullivan Tire) patch my tire and flush my brake fluid a few weeks ago. Does anyone know of a way to check the brake fluid to confirm they actually did the flush? I want to assume honesty on their part but getting the car back just over an hour later and no issues when it appears rare anyone but the dealer can properly work on the car gives me cause for concern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I seemingly had this very issue a couple weeks ago. In preparation for a track day, I had my performance shop attempt a brake flush and my car lit up like a Christmas tree as well. I know they did not have the Witech tool, and they probably didn't know about keeping the key fob away from the vehicle. So I had to rush to the dealership for support.

Requiring the WiTech tool is arguably impeding on the Right To Repair. Unfortunately, this may be just the beginning of a trend due to inversion of control in software defined vehicles.

I think it benefits us all to share practical knowledge and DIY (what works, what doesn't) before we really get to state where it simply won't be possible.
All of this concerns me slightly, since I had a third party shop (Sullivan Tire) patch my tire and flush my brake fluid a few weeks ago. Does anyone know of a way to check the brake fluid to confirm they actually did the flush? I want to assume honesty on their part but getting the car back just over an hour later and no issues when it appears rare anyone but the dealer can properly work on the car gives me cause for concern.
They probably knew to keep the key fob away from the car and all is well doing that kind of brake flush work if you keep the key fob away from the car. So I wouldn’t worry.
But since I have not done brake fluid bleeding work myself I do not know that for sure.
As far as knowing if they actually did the work wow that’s sad to hear you think that they might not have done it. I can’t think of any way to know for sure. There’s a lot of trust involved when you get your cars worked on. That’s why always go to the bigger auto places and also build relationships with my Alfa service manager and technicians if possible. But I have a whole lot of work done at my local race shop that is a small place but I know the owner and know that he has quality people and I trust him to do a good job.
Remember most shops really do want to do a good job because they want you to come back. But long ago I went to a shady shop and got ripped off before I got smart about getting to know people before they work on my car and building relationships with people.
 

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I’m going to carry the WiTech in the Giulia trunk on out-of-town trips just in case and I can use my iPhone as a Wi-Fi hotspot. Kind of sad that I feel I have to do that but I push the car much harder than most people do so i’m much more likely to have a problem. Funny thing is as the more I learn the less I think I’ll need it.
I did the same thing when I had my Volvo and a cheap Chinese knock-off Volvo DiCE OBD hardware interface. It's kind of a Murphy's Law thing: if you have it you won't need it, but the one time you leave it at home you'll wish you had it. Thankfully, my car was old enough that I could get by with a hacked version of the VIDA diagnostic software running in offline mode (which they don't allow anymore). I setup a Windows 7 virtual machine on my Macbook to just run VIDA. It was such a cranky piece of software and required just the right drivers, Java versions, etc. to run. There are people trying to run it on Windows 10 machines and it breaks every month or so, requiring fiddling to figure out why the software stopped working due to some automatic update to the Windows OS or some driver. With my virtual machine I turned off automatic updates and access to the network controller so that it could never automatically change state without my express consent. Even then, it would still flake out every now and then. I feel for dealer techs who have to put up with sketchy and expensive diagnostic tools with tons of DRM.

But I am offering to download Apple CarPlay onto any model Giulia!
Have you actually gotten Apple CarPlay working on an early MY2018 Giulia? That would be a first as far as I know.
 
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