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Dont forget to wear them inside too, this virus is no joke.

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Wonder if these experts have weighed the negative factors of long term mask use, isolation and pure laziness. Surprised no one wore a mask last year during the tuberculosis pandemic that killed 1.5 million people globally. Oh wait the news didn’t tell anyone to wear one so it must not be true. Can’t wait for the Netflix documentary to come out on the business side of corona. Dentist and gyms forced to close but abortion clinics, liquor stores, lottery tickets, marijuana dispensaries deemed essential. Seems logical.
 

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That can be true depending on where people go and work and their level of exposure.

On the bridge collapse topic, which is off topic I know... I live near Minneapolis (18 miles away) where a major bridge completely collapsed. 10 Years After Bridge Collapse, America Is Still Crumbling Scary crap. I remember exactly where I was, what I was doing. I have a friend that was on the bridge when it went down, luckily he was on the senction that still sort of stayed attached. He punched it and went flying onto the stable ground. Wrecked his back, and vehicle, but damn... could have been worse if it happened 2 seconds earlier.
From the other point of view: heart attacks are no joke. This pandemic will barely budge the overall mortality rate and the measures taken to protect the population may actually cause the mortality rate to decrease due to a reduction in other diseases with a high rate of mortality like influenza. There is the bigger issue of overwhelming ICUs with Covid-19 patients. Most heart attack victims never make it to the ICU. Long term the economic consequences of the extended quarantine are likely to increase overall mortality due to reduced access to housing, food and healthcare but of course that will not be attributed to the quarantine.

I remember the Minnesota bridge collapse. However, I was looking for an image of someone choosing to continue to drive even though there were warning signs and an obvious problem in view.
 

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That can be true depending on where people go and work and their level of exposure.

On the bridge collapse topic, which is off topic I know... I live near Minneapolis (18 miles away) where a major bridge completely collapsed. 10 Years After Bridge Collapse, America Is Still Crumbling Scary crap. I remember exactly where I was, what I was doing. I have a friend that was on the bridge when it went down, luckily he was on the senction that still sort of stayed attached. He punched it and went flying onto the stable ground. Wrecked his back, and vehicle, but damn... could have been worse if it happened 2 seconds earlier.
Wow, lucky guy for sure. I don’t live up there but remember the news when it was reported. Glad your friend made it. Definitely scary
 

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Wonder if these experts have weighed the negative factors of long term mask use, isolation and pure laziness. Surprised no one wore a mask last year during the tuberculosis pandemic that killed 1.5 million people globally. Oh wait the news didn’t tell anyone to wear one so it must not be true. Can’t wait for the Netflix documentary to come out on the business side of corona. Dentist and gyms forced to close but abortion clinics, liquor stores, lottery tickets, marijuana dispensaries deemed essential. Seems logical.
I was being sarcastic. My opposing opinion, which aligns with yours, was quickly and silently removed from this thread for questioning experts and mask use. So was another post which quoted my post in support.

So I stepped back into my cage, and aligned w the rest of the sheep. Good luck to you sir and having a critical opinion of your own. Be careful who you share it with would be my obvious advice.

I now wear my gag 24/7.
 

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Wonder if these experts have weighed the negative factors of long term mask use, isolation and pure laziness. Surprised no one wore a mask last year during the tuberculosis pandemic that killed 1.5 million people globally. Oh wait the news didn’t tell anyone to wear one so it must not be true. Can’t wait for the Netflix documentary to come out on the business side of corona. Dentist and gyms forced to close but abortion clinics, liquor stores, lottery tickets, marijuana dispensaries deemed essential. Seems logical.
Those that have pointed out the long term negatives of wearing a mask by a healthy person have been shouted down.
some of the ones I recall are: dramatically reduced O2 levels in the blood, dramatically increased risk of heat stroke in hot climates, dramatically increased risk of saver asthma attack for those that has even the most mild cases of asthma, etc...

The death rate from covid is plummeting. Also, total number of cases have climbed dramatically do to better and more prolific testing.

Oh, and I have actually had it because the testing I had to do for work showed I had the antibodies.
 

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@-ds- i had been tested once for Ab and negative so far. Scheduled to test once more but will wait until last dates to increase/improve my chances of coming back positive for antibodies. 🤞🏻

Do you recall if there was a scale or if the result was just detected or undetected?
 

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On the bridge collapse, that driver could not have even blamed cell/mobile-phone distracted driving.
 

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None of the millions if not billions of people in Asia who wear masks day in and day out and have for decades, many of them in hot and humid climates have every complained about O2 levels in their oxygen or asthma attacks. People are often asked to wear masks to prevent pollen and dust interaction to reduce asthma onset. Will there be a tiny fraction of people allergic to the materials or be truly unable to wear masks due to some medical condition? Sure. But that's not all. A statistic doesn't make an anecdote, just as an anecdote doesn't make a statistic. It's exhausting when people take anecdotes and make them statistics. I'm personally exhausted of the population at large watching and reading bits of soundbites on YouTube and other online resources and deciding that it is good enough to replace years of experience and expertise that comes with thorough education and substantial experience on the practice of sciences and math. At the end of the day it's not about whether it's at 3% or 1% or 0.1% death rate. For a disease that can and will likely spread to all 7.5 Billion people even a 0.1% death rate is high in my opinion. Maybe as an atheist I should shut up because I'm supposed to not value life unless it's an unborn child. There are several mathematical ways of computing and demonstrating all the things below, but none of them are a substitute for armchair expertise. All this fear mongering from both sides of this debate is absolutely devastating. People don't wake up till they are holding their child dying from the shit they did not want to believe in. Or to some lesser extent their grandparent. You know what, go ahead, screw up. Just be ready for my lawyers to go after you and your estate, because if any of you damn well are a cause for me or my family getting in jeopardy because of your careless and callous behavior, I'm coming after you. In my Guilia.
But the annual death rate from all causes is 1.5 - 2%, so a 0.1% bump is barely if at all noticeable.

Why would an atheist value unborn life but not adults? From a societal cost perspective, 30-40 year old productive adults are the most valuable as they are at the start of their most productive years after decades of investment by society to get them to that state. Society has very little invested in said unborn child.

It would help if the "experts" would indicate that they are using more than a disease spread model to compose recommended remedial actions. I have seen no such indication and as a result can only conclude that they are ignoring big picture issues.

I agree that there exists a subclass of people in the USA who will use any imaginary excuse available to avoid doing what needs to get done; that includes most of the medical excuse non-mask wearers.
 
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uh oh, someone better change the subject fast... uh... hey! how about those Tesla's. They sure do help and/or hurt the planet... amirite!
Take the money and buy the stock, skip the car.
 

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Those that have pointed out the long term negatives of wearing a mask by a healthy person have been shouted down.
some of the ones I recall are: dramatically reduced O2 levels in the blood, dramatically increased risk of heat stroke in hot climates, dramatically increased risk of saver asthma attack for those that has even the most mild cases of asthma, etc...

The death rate from covid is plummeting. Also, total number of cases have climbed dramatically do to better and more prolific testing.

Oh, and I have actually had it because the testing I had to do for work showed I had the antibodies.
Funny though, my wife has severe asthma combined with some other undiagnosed breathing disorder (several doctors have tried and just about every treatment in the book has been tried), plus she is heat sensitive and lives in a house with no air conditioning and yet she has no trouble wearing a mask as necessary.

I can imagine if you have COPD (usually a smoking related issue) you might have trouble with a mask, but then you are probably on oxygen and can run the oxygen lines under a mask.

That said, the problem is not with people who have a legitimate excuse to not wear a mask, but the much larger group of people who use any excuse possible to not wear a mask.

I would not put a lot of trust in the antibody tests. For example, are they testing for Corona Virus antibodies, or specifically for Covid-19? There apparently are a lot of different Corona Viruses, some of which are common.
 
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I would not put a lot of trust in the antibody tests. For example, are they testing for Corona Virus antibodies, or specifically for Covid-19? There apparently are a lot of different Corona Viruses, some of which are common.
Why limit this logic to Ab testing only? It applies to Ag testing too. Has anyone independently tested these tests to show accuracy? How many are false +ve and viceversa. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Masks dont stop the droplets. Its a bandaid for your brain/fear. You need to self-isolate or buy yourself a CAPR (personal breathing bubble)—ie personal responsibility in either case, not public responsibility. Even then, eventually, you will fail at your protocols and catch it cuz it WONT just go away. It isnt going anywhere. If MASS quarantine worked why didnt we do this with the flu, or any other viral inf agents? Dont be naive.

On top of that INSIDE a closed environment is the easiest way to exchange droplets, think about it if you need to but its a fact. You arent gonna catch it from a stranger in Walmart, you will catch it from wife or son or best friend and other ppl you come in close and extended contact.

You definitely bring a valid point mentioning strains. If this virus follows other coronavirus mutating patterns, we have provably 12-24 different strains. How many respond to current Ag testing? How about current Ab testing? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Its only looking for rna patterns and if those patterns arent present in mutations then it will be undetected in both instances.

N American Genome Strains ONLY.
 

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Why limit this logic to Ab testing only? It applies to Ag testing too. Has anyone independently tested these tests to show accuracy? How many are false +ve and viceversa. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Masks dont stop the droplets. Its a bandaid for your brain/fear. You need to self-isolate or buy yourself a CAPR (personal breathing bubble)—ie personal responsibility in either case, not public responsibility. Even then, eventually, you will fail at your protocols and catch it cuz it WONT just go away. It isnt going anywhere. If MASS quarantine worked why didnt we do this with the flu, or any other viral inf agents? Dont be naive.

On top of that INSIDE a closed environment is the easiest way to exchange droplets, think about it if you need to but its a fact. You arent gonna catch it from a stranger in Walmart, you will catch it from wife or son or best friend and other ppl you come in close and extended contact.

You definitely bring a valid point mentioning strains. If this virus follows other coronavirus mutating patterns, we have provably 12-24 different strains. How many respond to current Ag testing? How about current Ab testing? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Its only looking for rna patterns and if those patterns arent present in mutations then it will be undetected in both instances.

N American Genome Strains ONLY.
Quarantine was used in the 1918 influenza epidemic and more effectively for the Ebola outbreak. Masks stop droplets, just not all of them. Areas with populations that are using masks are having far less issue with the rate of spread of the disease.

Of course without a vaccine eventually pretty much everyone will eventually get infected. What is being protected are Hospital ICUs (which are needed for other things, like recovery from car crashes) and people who can/must isolate until a vaccine is available.
 
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Youre not wrong @lockem but there are many more questions and more to the story i suspect.

So because our icu beds are at 89% capacity the govr’n gets to decide who’s essential and who isnt? I dunno man, i am a perpetual sceptic in general and this isnt a far leap. I see a social engineering game in progress and restructuring of American economy, in laymans terms. Technological/ai revolution. Essential vs nonessential, i hope i am not the only one finding this discrimination very offensive, and i am an essential one. 🤷🏻‍♂️ who am i to tell joe he cant go to work if he deems it necessary. More ppl will die indirectly or directly from poverty than covid ten folds, thats my prediction.
 

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Youre not wrong @lockem but there are many more questions and more to the story i suspect.

So because our icu beds are at 89% capacity the govr’n gets to decide who’s essential and who isnt? I dunno man, i am a perpetual sceptic in general and this isnt a far leap. I see a social engineering game in progress and restructuring of American economy, in laymans terms. Technological/ai revolution. Essential vs nonessential, i hope i am not the only one finding this discrimination very offensive, and i am an essential one. 🤷🏻‍♂️ who am i to tell joe he cant go to work if he deems it necessary. More ppl will die indirectly or directly from poverty than covid ten folds, thats my prediction.
Please explain how masks, of any kind, are not stopping some /most of the droplets.
 
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They are stopping some, for sure. How much they stop and how safe one wants to be is that person’s responsibility and choice. Surgical masks are designed and used in hospital to prevent the wearers germs from spreading onto patients while performing procedures. They do nothing for the wearer, its not what they were designed for. Also, they are rated for 10min. What shirts do or cloth masks do is anyones guess. I would NOT rely on them or recommend a family member at risk to wear one and expect protection.

So ultimately if one is immuno compromised or scared shitless of dying then such person should decide if they wanna protect others from some of their (while others masks prevent SOME of others’ droplets from infecting you) droplets by wearing a face mask OR they can decide to protect themselves by proper n95 fitting mask or personal head bubble (capr). I hope you can see the irony of relying on others to protect you, thats not how I function. If i were scared id make sure i am 100% safe from others instead of being concerned about protecting others “some” by wearing a mask. Call me crazy but i wouldnt rely on compliance of others to protect my life. Plus one cant cry about possibly dying from this if Joe goes to work and Jane goes to the store unmasked yet they themselves are not willing to go an extra mile to be 100% protected. Just doesnt compute to me. Slap on an n95 and dont worry about others. 🤷🏻‍♂️

When you buy engine oil for you beloved Alfa, do you buy the bare minimum synthetic that will do or do you get the best there is out there according to your knowledge and research which you can afford? I would apply same logic with covid, if you are concerned about it. All those who are scared of dying stay inside and self isolate (meaning from anyone who leaves your bubble/isolation) or buy a 100% protective device. Anything less is moronic, especially so if one is scared of dying. Need to add that this needs to continue until developing Ab thru vaccine or by contracting the virus, choice is theirs, but there is no way around it unless in perpetual isolation.

If one isnt scared but merely complying to get thru their daily life than thats a different circumstance and I understand such compliance. I comply on a daily basis at work and dont complain. But i do have a problem having to wear it in public when im on my time in order to appease the masses’ fear or to protect them some for 10min. Somewhere there their rights stop and mine begin, just like with anything else out there. This is still America until November at least.

capr:
100798

Tldr: surgical masks are designed to protect from wearers germs and last 10min. If you wanna be 100% safe then get a capr-like solution and protect yourself or self isolate. Otherwise youre playing your odds and trying to make the rest of public play your game so your odds are better yet unknown. Ones health is their responsibility not the publics responsibility in a free country. At some point you will have to get the virus and survive or build immunity some other way or self isolate/capr for ever. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

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Can we just get back to cars instead of continuing to make comments that are gonna piss off at least 1/2 the readers of said posts? I'm personally way beyond caring what owners of Alfas think about Covid.....it's not an obvious expert qualification.
 
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