Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Tipo 33 Stradale 1/18 scale
Joined
·
2,849 Posts
most peoples sum total research into car reliability consists of picking the car they see most of on the road - they see Mazdas, they think Mazda are a good car because there is a Mazda in every driveway
and if asked which car they thought was the most reliable they would say Mazda based on that "study"

and then some publications will publish it


Tesla, which was last year’s top-ranked American auto brand
now i know its bullshit LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,535 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
CR is always a terrible judge of cars. Catastrophic engine failures are treated in the same way as a glitch in the navigation system. Most people under 60 don't pay it any mind.
lots of potential Alfa customers over 60, so it’s not gonna’ help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
most peoples sum total research into car reliability consists of picking the car they see most of on the road - they see Mazdas, they think Mazda are a good car because there is a Mazda in every driveway
and if asked which car they thought was the most reliable they would say Mazda based on that "study"

and then some publications will publish it


Tesla, which was last year’s top-ranked American auto brand
now i know its bullshit LOL
I actually like Mazdas and I see a million of them everywhere. I don't understand how statistically speaking, they have such a small US market share (less than 2%). If I were to survey the cars around where I live it would be at least 10%. I guess there are whole parts of the country without any Mazdas.

Yes, Tesla being on top is laughable as their quality is a joke. Like I said, the nav works well and people like the tech so it gets high marks. I just bought a new XC90 T8. The XC90 has horrible reliability rankings. I looked up the actual complaints and most of them were around the infotainment being laggy (which they mainly fixed in the 2020 refresh). NHTSA had no major issues reported with the stuff that matters in the last few years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
I honestly don't know how these people sleep. Tesla has the worst reliability of any modern car maker by an order of magnitude, but is somehow 16th. I know this because we have been shopping for a Model Y for nearly 6 months and during that time, following daily reports of serious problems with HVAC, paint, suspension, glass, literally every major part of the car. We drove 2 of them and they were the most shoddily constructed vehicles we'd ever seen. And OH HEY, TFL Car needed THREE Defenders to get one that actually worked. But hey, let's kick Alfa in the dick for making the last great driver's cars that normal people can actually afford and are somehow still mostly reliable. Honestly the media in this country is complete trash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
I honestly don't know how these people sleep. Tesla has the worst reliability of any modern car maker by an order of magnitude, but is somehow 16th. I know this because we have been shopping for a Model Y for nearly 6 months and during that time, following daily reports of serious problems with HVAC, paint, suspension, glass, literally every major part of the car. We drove 2 of them and they were the most shoddily constructed vehicles we'd ever seen. And OH HEY, TFL Car needed THREE Defenders to get one that actually worked. But hey, let's kick Alfa in the dick for making the last great driver's cars that normal people can actually afford and are somehow still mostly reliable. Honestly the media in this country is complete trash.
Its pay to play for this stuff. Alfa has no money so...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,890 Posts
There is already a thread on the subject of CR ratings. An insider pointed out that the process is (my summary):

Staff do impartial analysis.
Management publishes bits of said analysis to give the impression of impartiality.
Management then publishes whatever rating they want.

I recently ran into this when researching refrigerators; what management did in that case was not count any failure of the product if it was repaired under warranty--regardless of the frequency of said failure. At least in that case they published the criteria in the article. Online reviews show nothing but complaints about CRs top rated LG fridges while CR rated "meh" quality fridges get mostly positive reviews. I just ignore CR now and do a combination of online opinion research and inquiry at smaller stores (the kind that have to do the warranty repair if something goes wrong).
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
Joined
·
188 Posts
most peoples sum total research into car reliability consists of picking the car they see most of on the road - they see Mazdas, they think Mazda are a good car because there is a Mazda in every driveway
and if asked which car they thought was the most reliable they would say Mazda based on that "study"

and then some publications will publish it


Tesla, which was last year’s top-ranked American auto brand
now i know its bullshit LOL

And thats the main problem right. Like where I live there are Giulias and Stelvios everywhere, I also have 2 Alfa dealerships within 20 minutes of my house. Go to other parts of the country and you can go days without seeing one, but everyone has Hondas or Chevys or whatever. Mazda is a small maker there are markets with no Mazda dealership within a long distance and so they are rare to see on the road. Same goes for some luxury brands, and others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,890 Posts
I actually like Mazdas and I see a million of them everywhere. I don't understand how statistically speaking, they have such a small US market share (less than 2%). If I were to survey the cars around where I live it would be at least 10%. I guess there are whole parts of the country without any Mazdas.

Yes, Tesla being on top is laughable as their quality is a joke. Like I said, the nav works well and people like the tech so it gets high marks. I just bought a new XC90 T8. The XC90 has horrible reliability rankings. I looked up the actual complaints and most of them were around the infotainment being laggy (which they mainly fixed in the 2020 refresh). NHTSA had no major issues reported with the stuff that matters in the last few years.
Also, why do (all?) non-USA reliability reviews place Mercedes (C class) and Tesla as outstandingly bad, while CR gives them decent and outstanding ratings respectively?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hownowcb and nbview

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
CR requires a car maker to make a minimum of 2 models for CR to test. Fiat, Maserati, and Ram didn’t have this requirement so are completely excluded..so they basically cut off the bottom of last years list which leaves AR last. Strange.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,671 Posts
I can imagine Tavares and all Alfa Romeo management right now in the war room seriously discussing that "... at the bottom of Consumer Reports’ 2021 rankings, Alfa Romeo in last place. Alfa Romeo dropped by 5 places because of “worsened reliability” and poor performance in road tests ...". What a joke. And there may be people who even read this BS and believe it. Worsened reliability was not enough. They also found poor performance in road tests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
CR does not have much data on Allfa Romeo . For example, on the Giulia they indicate they do not have enough data to rate it on reliability in their charts, but give it an overall rating of 1 out of 5. They do not rate Consumer Satisfaction, as they do not have enough data, In their road test they rated it very highly. I think they should just not have included Alfa in this list and explained it is not rated due to lack of data.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
In any ranking, someone/something will be first and someone/something will be last. That’s a given. But without knowledge of the spread, there’s no way to know if the rank is meaningful. Consider Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average. The lowest-ranked child would (presumably) have an average school grade of B-. Given that narrow spread, is that lowest-ranked child a failure?

In a recent obit about J.D. Power, the article noted that in the mid-80s the average new car had 8 faults (as defined by the Power survey), whereas the average new car now has about 1 fault. Cars have become so good that Power surveys do not report “faults per vehicle” but instead use “faults per hundred vehicles” in order to get some cognitive distance between the “best” and the “worst.” Because, whoa!, one car rated at 110 must be a lot better than car rated 160 — that’s a 50-point gap! In actuality, the difference between 1.1 faults and 1.6 faults is pretty miniscule: the spread is just too narrow to be meaningful.

Thus, regardless of the other faults that may exist in CR’s ratings, the fact is the industry-wide spread is so narrow as to be functionally meaningless...but saying that is bad for subscriptions, and social-media tags, and research contracts, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
" includes survey responses from Consumer Reports subscribers"

The entire poll is worthless due to sampling errors ...

The critical issue in sampling is not sample size, but how best to reduce sample bias. There are many different ways that bias can creep into the sample selection process. Two of the most common occurred in this Consumer Reports poll.

1. Limiting survey to Consumer Reports subscribers produces selection bias

2. Because only a sub set of subscribers respond, there is a non response bias

In addition, given a statistically valid and reliable survey, the only survey measures that count are how many owners would buy their car again, how many would purchase another in the future, and how many would recommend to friends
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Sounds like another CR hit job, I purchased a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo and still have it,as it is a very well built and designed. Consumer Reports trashed the Isuzu Trooper,Isuzu left the U.S. market. After the CR report that said the Trooper was prone to rollover,there was a investigation and CR was found to have obvious bias and had rigged the test runs to favor American SUV manufacturers.
Somethings never change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I just bought a 2019 Ti Sport. I did research. I even checked CR. The thing I really looked at was the owner satisfaction info they had, and most importantly, the "Would you buy it again" ratings. The Giulia was at like 100% (obvi limited responses), but I figured if the people who owned them liked them enough, I'll take current owners opinion over CR.
Plus Car & Driver said that while they had reliability issues with the Quad, they had zero issues with the regular Giulia. Rated it 9/10.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top