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go to another state
^ This, right???

It never ceases to amaze me that so many folks who live in California are upset or surprised by these types of laws. I mean, it's no secret that CA is one of the most regulation heavy states in the country when it comes to just about anything. If this is something that appeals to a citizen, then feel free to continue to reside there - but for folks who are not fans of this regulation, I am not sure why they are surprised by it or still live there if it violates their personal beliefs and desires.

There are many other states with much less regulations and much less government intrusion if that is what someone wants.

It was important to me - hence why I previously lived in FL and now in TN.
 

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^ This, right???

It never ceases to amaze me that so many folks who live in California are upset or surprised by these types of laws. I mean, it's no secret that CA is one of the most regulation heavy states in the country when it comes to just about anything. If this is something that appeals to a citizen, then feel free to continue to reside there - but for folks who are not fans of this regulation, I am not sure why they are surprised by it or still live there if it violates their personal beliefs and desires.

There are many other states with much less regulations and much less government intrusion if that is what someone wants.

It was important to me - hence why I previously lived in FL and now in TN.
Im saying to go another state to get the work done...Duh
 

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I believe the new law is going to check the actual car each year for evidence of a tune or piggy back. If so, this will not be alleviated by having the work done elsewhere. If you live in CA and drive in CA, you will be subject to inspection and failure of CARB requirements if you have any tune on your car or history of one.
 

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I believe the new law is going to check the actual car each year for evidence of a tune or piggy back. If so, this will not be alleviated by having the work done elsewhere. If you live in CA and drive in CA, you will be subject to inspection and failure of CARB requirements if you have any tune on your car or history of one.
Annual checks each year (compared to the current every-other year after 4? years)? Also, checks everywhere or are areas with little smog and no smog stations (about 17 counties total) still exempted?

This sound like it might provide some motivation to tune mfgs to get executive orders.
 

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More details below:

Any tune that's not from the factory or CARB-approved will cause your car to fail a smog check starting next Monday. Go to "Smog Check Results" on the BAR Smog FAQ then scroll down to "My vehicle failed a Smog Check for having modified software. What can I do?"
https://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Smog...-check-results

Up until the 19th, smog on modern cars (2000 and up) used to include just a visual inspection and a OBDII check that looks for check engine lights and that basic emissions equipment was functional. There also had to be a certain number of miles driven since the codes were cleared or ECU was flashed (drive cycle) in order to pass. That meant aftermarket tunes, while technically not allowed, would not cause a problem if the rest of the emissions equipment is still stock. Under the new procedure, the OBDII check will fail a car that has a non-approved tune too. Some smog shops are already doing the new check.

As for how this system will work, over the last 10 years the state has created a database for what various ECU values should be in specific cars. Additionally, the Calibration Verification Number (also called checksum) will be compared against what it should be for that car from the manufacturer. Checksums for CARB-legal tunes are whitelisted. It is very difficult, but not impossible, to tune a car without changing the checksum. Any aftermarket tune will change the checksum unless it was designed specifically not to. https://tiremeetsroad.com/2021/07/13...led-smog-test/

For many people this means that they will have to flash their car back to stock for at least one drive cycle before getting their smog check. It will be more of an issue for those with highly modified engines that may not run well or actually throw codes on a stock tune.

There are options for CARB-legal flashes, piggybacks, and engine parts for most cars but they often cost more than non-approved options. This new change in enforcement will likely make these offerings significantly more attractive.

In terms of shops who were already breaking the law and doing 'hot smogs', it remains to see if they will be able to get around this new system.
 

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You don't have to get a new car smogged for 4 years, and you can extend that to 8 by paying a $20 smog abatement fee each year with registration renewal.


Those of us that keep the car for 8 years, sure, might have to flash back to stock before the inspection.
 

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OK, so if the smog check schedule is unchanged I have no issue since if your car is registered in a low smog area of California there are no periodic smog checks. This is done in part because such areas also do not have smog check stations due to the low population density, however it also provides evidence that the state is not just being mean but just trying to meet federal air quality rules.

I'm no air quality expert, but it is a bit confusing why car emissions have been reduced by ~99% over the last 50 years, but the smog level has only decreased by 75% or so. Maybe the regulators are overlooking other major sources of smog producing emissions?
 

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I'm no air quality expert, but it is a bit confusing why car emissions have been reduced by ~99% over the last 50 years, but the smog level has only decreased by 75% or so. Maybe the regulators are overlooking other major sources of smog producing emissions?
planes. Boats. Off road equipment. Construction equipment are more present now than ever. Usually the loudest people for environment are the biggest offenders. People drive a Tesla but have 46 electrical devices for every aspect of life. “Alexa please order new ear pods”. And to top it all off we have over fished the oceans. Perfect storm.
 

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planes. Boats. Off road equipment. Construction equipment are more present now than ever. Usually the loudest people for environment are the biggest offenders. People drive a Tesla but have 46 electrical devices for every aspect of life. “Alexa please order new ear pods”. And to top it all off we have over fished the oceans. Perfect storm.
Maybe, I dunno. I can tell you I will only buy electric lawn mowers going forward, although my lack of a lawn on my new property may negate that. OTOH, there is no electric alternative that is worth a damn to my gas powered Polaris XP900 or the gas powered snow blower that I have on order.

Refineries have historically been a source of large quantities of air pollutants.

At my new residence the power comes from a geothermal generator AND I have solar panels that net power production over the course of a year (no electric car though...).
 

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Maybe, I dunno. I can tell you I will only buy electric lawn mowers going forward, although my lack of a lawn on my new property may negate that. OTOH, there is no electric alternative that is worth a damn to my gas powered Polaris XP900 or the gas powered snow blower that I have on order.

Refineries have historically been a source of large quantities of air pollutants.

At my new residence the power comes from a geothermal generator AND I have solar panels that net power production over the course of a year (no electric car though...).
I had a customer who lives off Lincoln drive in Philly. Big house maybe 6,000sq. He had them drill down hundreds of feet and install geo thermal set up. His house is always 60 degrees. In summer that’s great. Winter he only has to heat it up a little bit. His heat and AC bill average about $40 a month for a 6000 sq ft house. That’s amazing. But the system cost him $55k and he had dozens of ducts and holes throughout house. So I wonder how many years it would take to break even. But he loves it. Maybe if he sells house he’ll get it’s real value back.
 

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I had a customer who lives off Lincoln drive in Philly. Big house maybe 6,000sq. He had them drill down hundreds of feet and install geo thermal set up. His house is always 60 degrees. In summer that’s great. Winter he only has to heat it up a little bit. His heat and AC bill average about $40 a month for a 6000 sq ft house. That’s amazing. But the system cost him $55k and he had dozens of ducts and holes throughout house. So I wonder how many years it would take to break even. But he loves it. Maybe if he sells house he’ll get it’s real value back.
The geothermal power plant is in the middle of a very large volcano. They tried drilling down 2 miles to find hot spots without success and had to settle on utilizing natural hot spots near the surface. Strange. It is only 50MWatt, but makes the county a net energy exporter. The energy is reasonably priced but the delivery charge (about double the price of the generation charge) is whacko. The high price of energy in the area makes having solar pretty much mandatory.

Does Philly still have cheap nuclear power?

I have a ground source "geothermal" heat pump in my home, which cost about $35k to install, including hydronics etc. My house is only 1600 square feet and heavily insulated, but it still runs about $200/month for heating in the winter. OTOH, winter in Bridgeport California is about 30F colder than winter in Philly.

The SolarPV and ground source heatpump systems pay for themselves over about 1/2 of their life expectancy, assuming the cost of money and the average rate of electricity price increases are about the same. The ground source heatpump payback is better the more extreme is your weather. The SolarPV payback is better with better sun exposure, higher utility rate and advantageous net-metering scheme in the installed area*. My PV system is ground mount, which costs a premium over roof mount.

* SCE pays about $0.05/kwh to commercial generators, then charges end users about $0.23/kwh for power. Net metering lets me effectively get $0.23/kwh for my excess solar PV output rather than $0.05/kwh.
 

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The geothermal power plant is in the middle of a very large volcano. They tried drilling down 2 miles to find hot spots without success and had to settle on utilizing natural hot spots near the surface. Strange. It is only 50MWatt, but makes the county a net energy exporter. The energy is reasonably priced but the delivery charge (about double the price of the generation charge) is whacko. The high price of energy in the area makes having solar pretty much mandatory.

Does Philly still have cheap nuclear power?

I have a ground source "geothermal" heat pump in my home, which cost about $35k to install, including hydronics etc. My house is only 1600 square feet and heavily insulated, but it still runs about $200/month for heating in the winter. OTOH, winter in Bridgeport California is about 30F colder than winter in Philly.

The SolarPV and ground source heatpump systems pay for themselves over about 1/2 of their life expectancy, assuming the cost of money and the average rate of electricity price increases are about the same. The ground source heatpump payback is better the more extreme is your weather. The SolarPV payback is better your sun exposure and the higher your utility rate and the better the net-metering scheme in your area*. My system is ground mount, which costs a premium over roof mount.

* SCE pays about $0.05/kwh to commercial generators, then charges end users about $0.23/kwh for power. Net metering lets me effectively get $0.23/kwh for my excess solar PV output rather than $0.05/kwh.
he did say that the company buys back his solar. Whatever that means. I would assume Philly uses nuclear since the limerick nuclear power plant is only 30 miles away. Not sure how that works honestly.
 

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he did say that the company buys back his solar. Whatever that means. I would assume Philly uses nuclear since the limerick nuclear power plant is only 30 miles away. Not sure how that works honestly.
Way OT, but

OK so $40/month is for ground source geothermal PLUS solar PV, not ground source geothermal alone. That makes more sense. I have encountered a lot of claims of very low energy costs from energy efficient homes where the owner does not disclose important factors, like burning firewood he cut himself (counted as free), having a solarPV system but not disclosing the cost, having net metering with an annual electric bill then bragging about how low the monthly bills (administrative fees and taxes only) are, etc.

Net metering is good for the residential solarPV owner and bad for the power company; it is there to encourage distributed solarPV and not really fair to the power company. Paying wholesale for power is good for the power company and terrible for residential solar PV. It is what the power company would do without regulations and is not fair to the home owner.

Somewhere in between lies a meaningful arrangement, and the CPUC is headed towards that point. Note that without regulation a fair arrangement would never happen.

Power produced by distributed solarPV is worth more than power produced by a distant, centralized power plant because the solar PV suffers lower line losses and puts less strain on the distribution system. However, that same power is clearly not worth full retail, since local infrastructure is not free to construct or maintain and the solarPV only makes power when the sun is shining rather than when there is demand. My solarPV installer advised that I do not install significant excess capacity, largely because the price I get for the excess is not as good as the price I get for negating my demand.
 
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