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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So my experiment last weekend at this 2 day tracking at ORP was quite interesting. I was quite successful in my goal of driving fast, having fun and not blowing up my tires and my brakes in two days. This is the first time I took it to this track with my new Eibach lowered springs also my EuroCompulsion ECU tune and B& M air filter now at about 620HP. Car was dramatically changed. Before I only had -.5 camber and after I lowered it I have -1.7 camber. Not only did the tires and the brakes seem to wear much better I could actually trailbrake the car quite a bit whereas before I couldn't do it at all! It was a two day event and as time went on I started to do it more and more to rotate the car. Was getting to the point where it was almost crazy how much I could rotate the car using trailbraking and even almost to the apex.

Before I discovered this my plan was slow in and fast out to save my tires and brakes that's what I did for quite a while but then I started experimenting. The only problem with trailbraking was getting the motor smoothly back on the gas without spinning the rear tires. About 620 HP even with my 305 tires it's very easy to completely smoke up the tires especially up any elevation. A few times I did it of course and my friends were telling me how amazing it is to see this sedan doing something like that. And me myself looking in my rearview mirrors seeing this cloud of smoke coming off both tires behind me was pretty funny. It is just like you see in the Chris Harris videos probably better because I have the tune.

The next day I had to deal with a Lotus 2 Eleven (in a video here) and got my butt handed to me. But that driver had been coming to this track for years and was very very good driver whom became friends with and he gave me some realistic fast lap times to work to achieve. His Lotus 2 Eleven car only weighs 1,500 lbs and he's driving on Hoosier A7 40 hardness slicks.

Before this I didn't think you could really track this car but I now think you can. You can put on the 300 hardness tires which I have on which held up amazingly well and allowed me to do laps at about 2:00 flat on a track where the fastest cars (like the Lotus 2 Eleven on slicks) can do maybe 1:50 or a more street legal heavier car like a GT3RS or crazy mod 650HZp Vette slicks might do 1:54).

The next level for Giulia QV would be to put on Hoosier R7s! Oh my that be something! People tell me it might take 4 seconds off my time.

So I now have laptime numbers from a great driver of this track to shoot for which would be 1:55 for Giulia on slicks and 1:52 for my 4C on my slicks (get it back in about a week can't wait!!).

So anyway back to interesting things I learned about the Giulia. So once lowered and driving in race mode it tracks like a madman and is among the fastest cars there, it seems to have an irritating flaw for tracking. Nothing super serious but still quite irritating. Even though it's in full race mode traction control of some sort kicks in in some rare instances. You can see it clearly in the video with me going against the white Lotus 2 Eleven. It happens the very first turn in the video it is a right turn going up a hill. It happened in that same spot a few times for some reason if you're not taking the turn really well it will cut power to about 1/2 for about 2 or 3 seconds. No lights come on the dash at all you're just sitting there wanting to go fast and you have no power! You instinctively downshift and you can do nothing except wait then the power comes back fully. And for some reason maybe Murphy's Law every time I challenge this fastest car on the track my car would go to into traction power control delay and the Lotus car would pull ahead 100 feet or more!! I so much wanted to stay close to him for at least a bit and I could have but I felt like a cowboy on a stubborn horse.

I was under the impression that in race mode there was no traction control but if ABS kicked in enough it would do something. I read that somewhere I can't remember if anybody knows more please let me know. And you can watch the beginning of the video to see it just watch me clicking the paddles and that's right when it happened as soon as I was halfway into the turn.

But many times I would take that same turn and no problem maybe I was taking it better and then I tried into the turn trailbraking and never had a problem. It's quite an interesting feeling trailbraking (so I'm actually braking) into the turn and even up a hill. Never thought braking up a hill would be fast, but it is and so smooth when you do it perfectly.

Other thing I really learned is TIRES. As great as I felt I did my fastest lap time was 2:00 flat. I did a 1:59 before with the stock springs but I had Michelin Sport Cup 2 180 hardness tires on. But I totally wore those tires out in two days at ORP which is a very technical track. Now with my 300 hardness Michelin Sports 4S tires they are less than half worn out after 3 track days and have held up amazingly well although the rear tires you have to watch for burnouts.

I could put back on Michelin Sport Cup 2 180 hardness tires have faster lap times but seems the tires would last half as long. Again with the lowered springs everything lasts better but it's kind of nice to not wear out the tires in 2-3 track days. I really think I'm going to save up and get a 2nd wheel set with Hoosier R7s. Just seems like it would be so amazing to have a big five seater sedan be that fast on the track.

So at end of day one all advanced drivers were allowed to do some practice starts to get us ready for racing with pace car, double file start, single file start and flags. That was great fun and everybody kicked it up a whole notch! That Arial Atom finally let me pass him (oh my that's fun to say, but I doubt I'll ever be able to say it again as that was his first day with the car) at the end I let the Lotus Exige pass me as he was slightly faster.

Lots of fun! All the fast cars (and almost every car there) have racing slicks on. Giulia is only on 300 hardness street tires.

Towards the end of the video I get passed by a Lotus Exige. Not really much faster than me and all day long we had some great battles. But he had Hoosier R7s on and we both agreed that if I had slicks on I would be faster. We had such a great time pushing each other during lunch we laughed and laughed about how hard we were making each other drive. Great times!

A blue Camero went off course really fast really bad. So lucky he did not flip over but all his airbags went off. But he was able to drive it onto the trailer! That's one of the really nice things about this track is the off course is so soft just really dusty!!

Also it was interesting and to bring so much camping and tracking gear in an Alfa!! Me and my daughter camped out in the paddock and we had Great time with all kinds of amenities:
Large tent,
full-size king sized tall air mattress
Full size microwave oven
Yeti 110 V large power cell
Espresso machine
Milk frother
Blender for margaritas
Chairs
Table
Umbrellas
a full-size hammock
All my tracking gear.
Even a dog.
Ha ha try fitting that in a 4C!

People couldn't believe I brought all of that stuff in one car! We were "glamping"! Look it up it's the new thing glamour camping. I actually went to a campsite that specialized in it when I did the gold rush rally.

All in all it was a great event!! So happy. I look forward to Driven's upcoming cutting criticism and word twisting to try and bring me down ha ha!!

Day 1 video of practice starts:
https://youtu.be/Sf6okaOxxHM

Day 1 video miscellaneous tracking:
https://youtu.be/eLfFTQ-MeGg

Day 2 Video with Lotus 2 Eleven:
https://youtu.be/SehpQ6JCx7g
 

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Awesome experience - great write up!!!
I just checked Eurocompulsion's website and do not see any upgrades for the engine yet. I assume you are one of the first to get one and it's preliminary.
How is it installed - software, add on controllers or swapping out the ECUs?

I believe I have experienced mine go into a safe mode as well - pulling the power in Race Mode.
I was at Island Dragway doing 1/4 mile runs, and if I had a lot of wheel spin at launch, once I got full traction it seemed to pull the power for a second...
When I had a cleaner launch, this did not seem to occur.
No braking was used except to get the RPMs up and remove the throttle delay at launch.

Thanks!

Mike
 

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As far as cutting power goes... my Ferrari 360 Spider does the same thing. I think Magneti Marelli have some hard coded traction control in the ECU and TCU. Sport Mode, ASR off (Race) Even with a Challenge Stradale TCU, I get the same thing when up shifting below 5K rpm. Also, this past weekend on the highway and my trip back from Dreamride in CT, I finally felt a little tire slip in 4th or 5th as I was accelerating around a slower car ASR off. That felt like tire slip at higher rpm. The power cutout happens at lower rpm in lower gears, especially second. I think it cuts spark if the g sensors don't like it. With all the bumps in the roads it's hard to tell if you can eliminate that as a cause. Some F1 cars were experiencing spark cut at Spa this weekend. Not sure if it was McLaren or Red Bull or both. And it was an unintended software or computer problem, like we are noticing. Or maybe I am confusing that with a great Williams video I just saw about the old active suspension car ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Awesome experience - great write up!!!
I just checked Eurocompulsion's website and do not see any upgrades for the engine yet. I assume you are one of the first to get one and it's preliminary.
How is it installed - software, add on controllers or swapping out the ECUs?

I believe I have experienced mine go into a safe mode as well - pulling the power in Race Mode.
I was at Island Dragway doing 1/4 mile runs, and if I had a lot of wheel spin at launch, once I got full traction it seemed to pull the power for a second...
When I had a cleaner launch, this did not seem to occur.
No braking was used except to get the RPMs up and remove the throttle delay at launch.

Thanks!

Mike
Thanks Mike!
You can just call EC and talk to Chris I understand he's going to put on the website in a day or two it's still a pretty new product.

It's swapping out the two ECUs. And he has some new thing coming that will make upgrades be able to be done without having to pull them again so you'll never have to pull them again and it's a hassle as it's very tight in there, the whole car is tight!

No it's not safe mode it stays in race mode it just cuts the power some percentage for a few seconds. Nothing about wheel spin at all. I actually once totally smoked both the tires up a hill 200 feet and so much that smoke went into the car and I thought the car was on fire and I pulled over. But no our loss or message came up other than the torque vectoring system said it was overheated and stayed in race mode.

When you really smoke the tires a lot you can have that light come up but it seems to go away really quick you just have to pull over and turn off the car for just a few minutes.

I believe it is something with the ABS kicking into too much. But it's odd I've slammed on the brakes coming into a turn too hot and heard the ABS working in while I dived right into a corner with understand and no problem with the power loss coming on.

It happened mostly on that one turn so it's something about turning to the right going uphill and not nailing the corner well. Funny I never had it happen when I really took the corner well!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As far as cutting power goes... my Ferrari 360 Spider does the same thing. I think Magneti Marelli have some hard coded traction control in the ECU and TCU. Sport Mode, ASR off (Race) Even with a Challenge Stradale TCU, I get the same thing when up shifting below 5K rpm. Also, this past weekend on the highway and my trip back from Dreamride in CT, I finally felt a little tire slip in 4th or 5th as I was accelerating around a slower car ASR off. That felt like tire slip at higher rpm. The power cutout happens at lower rpm in lower gears, especially second. I think it cuts spark if the g sensors don't like it. With all the bumps in the roads it's hard to tell if you can eliminate that as a cause. Some F1 cars were experiencing spark cut at Spa this weekend. Not sure if it was McLaren or Red Bull or both. And it was an unintended software or computer problem, like we are noticing. Or maybe I am confusing that with a great Williams video I just saw about the old active suspension car
Wow you certainly know a lot about this kind of stuff realize there were so many issues like this.

We complain about these items but they probably save motors from blowing up in some extreme instances. But certainly nothing that was happening with my car.

I'm going to have my dealership tech check into this. I think he can find out exactly technically what's happening. But I don't think there's much I can do about it. Maybe an ECU tune could address it? It's not that big a deal it just pops up every once a while.
I tracked hard about 400 miles in two days and it only happened about maybe 5 times. But amazingly two of the times were at the absolute worst time possible when I was trying to play with the Lotus 2 Eleven and 1 or 2 times with the Lotus Exige.

Maybe it's got a soft spot for the Brits?
 

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Great write up!

If ABS is triggered in race mode then the ESC+TC comes on as a precaution and remains active for a period of 15-20s after the ABS event. In this sense, even in Race mode the "nannies" are never ever fully disengaged.

Its possible the power cutting momentarily on the uphill section you mention under full load and throttle is caused by the fuel pump/sensor. Just an idea, but this may be behaving similar to when the tank is almost empty on the track?

It would be very interesting to see how your times improved on the MPSC2 with the new alignment. If you now have 120 bhp and 80nm increase in power and your times havent changed due to the less aggressive tyres then one could expect a 2s a lap improvement on the stickier 180 TW rubber. Keen to see how long you get out of those PS4S. If you have two days now and only half worn then hopefully you will see 4!

Keep up the excellent reporting :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Great write up!

If ABS is triggered in race mode then the ESC+TC comes on as a precaution and remains active for a period of 15-20s after the ABS event. In this sense, even in Race mode the "nannies" are never ever fully disengaged.

Its possible the power cutting momentarily on the uphill section you mention under full load and throttle is caused by the fuel pump/sensor. Just an idea, but this may be behaving similar to when the tank is almost empty on the track?

It would be very interesting to see how your times improved on the MPSC2 with the new alignment. If you now have 120 bhp and 80nm increase in power and your times havent changed due to the less aggressive tyres then one could expect a 2s a lap improvement on the stickier 180 TW rubber. Keen to see how long you get out of those PS4S. If you have two days now and only half worn then hopefully you will see 4!

Keep up the excellent reporting :)
Thanks Mark,

I'm sure it wasn't more than four to six seconds. Just watch the video and try to time it looks like about four seconds. Hard to tell because it doesn't completely cut the power. Seems like an eternity when you're driving and that Lotus is pulling away you know you have no chance to catch up any ground! And I tried to tell that Lotius driver what happened but he looked at me like I was Mr. excuse so I stopped that right away.

It's definitely not fuel starvation like I had before. A different track running on less than half a tank of gas I went over a small bump elevation and it actually through engine codes and put it into limp mode. End it did it twice in the exact same spot. I filled up the gas tank and had no more problems. I always keep it above half a tank now and I did at ORP so that was not it.

Suppose it could be some type of fuel starvation that doesn't set off codes. Kind of feels like that but the motor doesn't sound weird it just has no power like someone took their foot halfway off the gas pedal.

I believe the ABS system works exactly the same in all modes. What I had heard is that in some instances when ABS is triggered extremely hard that it will throw some traction control on in race mode.

Anyway it seems to be a mystery but I'll find out from my dealership tech.

Sorry my tires I omitted an important part of the facts, I'm not driving like a madman anymore. I'm disturbed but I'm not insane. Last time I was at ORP I was with my friend in his Porsche Carrera S and he's a very good driver and I pushed my Giulia to the very extremes including late braking and a lot of understeer plowing because of the stock springs that are a bit bouncy.

My oal this trip was to go fast and make my tires and brakes last. I'm quite proud of myself for holding back. I definitely had some close to the same hot laps but I never overheated my brakes or tires. Last time I remember the greasy tire feeling continuing to drive basically wearing out my tires exponentially.

So I guess what I am saying is even with the lesser quality 300 hardness tires but because of the suspension improvements and extra power I do believe if I went and did an extreme hot lap I could match or beat my last time. Late braking at ORP with those hills is a bit of a leap of faith anyway. I don't think I want to do that again in the Giulia. But I will do it with my 4C. Maybe I'll change my mind after I get to know the Giulia CCB brakes better but now they are still so foreign to me. But the pads look pretty good after these three hard track days I have put on them. But I'm going to take the wheels off and look at the inner side of the brake pads very carefully in the next few days I suspect they will be good though I did not abuse them like I did the first set of brake pads. You hear CCB brakes are so awesome and they never overheat well that's bs, they can and they do. I did it and it's expensive! And with any overheated brakes could be dangerous too.

I liked your idea of getting some ventilation to them, that is an excellent idea. But it won't be easy to do with those intercoolers right in front of them.

Here's a picture of my PS4S tires after 2 track days at ORP and about 900 street miles. I just love how ORP goes one direction one day and then the opposite direction the other day to balance out tire wear. I think they look like they're about halfway worn may be a bit more?What do you think can you tell from the photo? The rear 305 width tires have 3 hard track days (1 at SCR and 2 at ORP). I have curtailed most of my burnouts and drifting at the track too. They look about half worn also I think.

The next step in tires will be new lightweight rims and Hoosier R7 slicks. I think the car can handle that stress. I asked my dealership tech and he said it would. I mean if an M3 can come on Alfa always beats the M cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
How does your car perform as a daily driver with all of the mods?
Well it handles great and rides really smooth. I haven't done much to it only lowering springs, an ECU tune and wider tires in the back.

The cars a bit lower than I want but some people really like how it looks. I'll probably raise the front end about 1 inch when Eibach comes out with springs that make it a bit higher in the front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
One last video from that great weekend! I dug it up because it's a fun one with my friends and also that Lotus Exige gets away from me.

When having great fun with my friends we all push each other! Everyone has slicks on but me and the red Vette. I think the Guilia QV would be so awesome with slicks on. I hope to save up and do it. Also going to have to get some brake cooling. $$$ to track hard!

Gosh I so love this car. If I punch it at 90 miles an hour my head smacks into the headrest! I really like the ECU tune from EuroCompulsion!

Just got my 4C back so I don't think they'll be any more Giulia tracking videos for a while.

https://youtu.be/z2VEJ_Wb5cE
 

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Tom. That's a fun video. The QV seems pretty well behaved even towards the end of the 20 min session when the tires are obviously greasy. I thought I may have heard some touching under compression through the video sound a few times during the session, not sure as its hard to tell for sure on a sound file. I know you changed back to the smaller diameter tires etc. That little S2 Exige is going well. I assume its the 4 pot supercharged version probably with an ecu tune and exhaust etc. You can get 260-280 bhp from them and they are only 1000kg.

Yes, I think a makeshift front rotor cooling system would reduce pad/rotor consumption significantly for very little $$$. Also once you get the QV springs installed with the firmer damping rates, I think you will find the front of the car stiffens up nicely and allows you corner flatter although you may also find a tad more under-steer. The QV has some of the beefiest front sway bars Ive ever seen on a car. They must be 30mm diameter+

Congrats on getting the 4C sorted. Now youve done half a dozen track days in the QV it will be very interested to hear your comparison first day back in the 4C at the track. You cant beat physics and the 4C is a very light car...
 

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Gosh I so love this car. If I punch it at 90 miles an hour my head smacks into the headrest! I really like the ECU tune from EuroCompulsion!...
Do you have the QV? And did the Eurocompulsion tune make your car a better daily driver in the city? In particular, does it deliver a more spirited launch when the light turns green? I really dislike the soft start that this car has, and I'm hoping that a tune will make it better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Tom. That's a fun video. The QV seems pretty well behaved even towards the end of the 20 min session when the tires are obviously greasy. I thought I may have heard some touching under compression through the video sound a few times during the session, not sure as its hard to tell for sure on a sound file. I know you changed back to the smaller diameter tires etc. That little S2 Exige is going well. I assume its the 4 pot supercharged version probably with an ecu tune and exhaust etc. You can get 260-280 bhp from them and they are only 1000kg.

Yes, I think a makeshift front rotor cooling system would reduce pad/rotor consumption significantly for very little $$$. Also once you get the QV springs installed with the firmer damping rates, I think you will find the front of the car stiffens up nicely and allows you corner flatter although you may also find a tad more under-steer. The QV has some of the beefiest front sway bars Ive ever seen on a car. They must be 30mm diameter+

Congrats on getting the 4C sorted. Now youve done half a dozen track days in the QV it will be very interested to hear your comparison first day back in the 4C at the track. You cant beat physics and the 4C is a very light car...
Hey Mark,
Yeah it's fun running with your buddies. Here we were pushing it pretty hard but other times we take it easier and take turns playing tag and following each others lines and stuff.

There are slight rubbing even with the stock size front tires I have on now but it's so tiny that it's not an issue but there was some wiring popping through that would be an issue that I just pushed The rubber boot going through the hall with the wire on it out-of-the-way. (See photo). And my rear 305s rubbed a bit on the inside but I banged it with a hammer a bit in the areas also maybe tires wore down a little and now it seems to be fine I really don't want to go narrower with so much HP. I know "banged it with a hammer" don't hate me!

Now I don't have to worry about any rubbing issues but it's too low in front for me and I'm working with Eibach. Even today we traded emails they're going to get me some new springs from Germany that will raise my car 1/2 inch. They wanted me to wait for ocean shipment 12 weeks and I said no airfreight them I deserve it since it was their mistake listing it. I'm pretty sure they're going to do it for me especially since I'm giving him all these measurements and helping them.

I would have beaten that Lotus Exige if I would've had slicks on like he did. But it was so close we really pushed each other and we had lots of laughs during lunch. But you know you push the Giulia extra 10% and exponentially you wear out the brakes more! If only the brake replacement parts cost 50% of what they do now! Maybe someday.

This winter I think I'll have my race shop make up those 3-D plastic brake cooling proto types that just scoop up air and then directs it onto a new backing plate that has a hole in it.

You're not kidding about the front sway bar when I first saw it I thought it was a metal radiator hose! Nice that you don't have to upgrade it.

Yes picked up the 4C and I'm ready to go this Saturday I have one track day at SCR and then next Monday and Tuesday two days at ORP.

The 4C is a beast now got some special mods and I have more power than ever. I'll send you an email as I will not talk about engine mods on forums anymore. A person on the 4C forum tried to use my engine mods in his personal beef against a vendor and then 2 trolls tried similar bs that was it for me. I'm not here to feed the trolls.

But the moderators took both trolls posts down and both trolls were publicly formally warned about their accounts getting temporary banned or even permanently banning them from the forum so it was a good day. One is that same idiot on this forum I beefed with before and that I warned you about. But I don't think he'll be trolling on this forum anymore either. The word is out about him and several other forum members tore into him pretty good also. It was glorious, 2 miserable trolls finally getting exactly what they deserve.
Bullies always get their comeuppance.....always.

Anyway onto more pleasant stuff getting ready for this weekend got all my tires out oh my God I have an addiction. I actually found I have 4 more then the 25 in this picture!

Hopefully I'll smoke a bunch up the next three tracking days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Gosh I so love this car. If I punch it at 90 miles an hour my head smacks into the headrest! I really like the ECU tune from EuroCompulsion!...
Do you have the QV? And did the Eurocompulsion tune make your car a better daily driver in the city? In particular, does it deliver a more spirited launch when the light turns green? I really dislike the soft start that this car has, and I'm hoping that a tune will make it better.
Hi yes QV ha ha if you could get a four-cylinder to smack your head into the headrest that would really be something!! I want one!!!
And yes it got rid of some of the lag time from when you push the acelerator until the car moves. Also yes better daily driver and just better all over and more power seems like lots! Can't think of any downside to it other than the cost because there's two ECUs.
 

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Hi yes QV ha ha if you could get a four-cylinder to smack your head into the headrest that would really be something!! I want one!!!
And yes it got rid of some of the lag time from when you push the acelerator until the car moves. Also yes better daily driver and just better all over and more power seems like lots! Can't think of any downside to it other than the cost because there's two ECUs.
Thanks for the reply. I think a tune is the only thing that is going to solve the soft starts that are driving me crazy, so I'm looking forward to having it done just as soon as it is available. All I'm asking for is the ability to get a little head snap when the light turns green and I step on the gas pedal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi yes QV ha ha if you could get a four-cylinder to smack your head into the headrest that would really be something!! I want one!!!
And yes it got rid of some of the lag time from when you push the acelerator until the car moves. Also yes better daily driver and just better all over and more power seems like lots! Can't think of any downside to it other than the cost because there's two ECUs.
Thanks for the reply. I think a tune is the only thing that is going to solve the soft starts that are driving me crazy, so I'm looking forward to having it done just as soon as it is available. All I'm asking for is the ability to get a little head snap when the light turns green and I step on the gas pedal.
I'm sure you'd be pleased i'd say the delay is fixed 80% . The car is a real head snapper now. It truly amazes me the power this car has both when it was stock and even more so now.
 

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I'm sure you'd be pleased i'd say the delay is fixed 80% . The car is a real head snapper now. It truly amazes me the power this car has both when it was stock and even more so now.
Any remaining lag that you have now might be due to the gas pedal itself. With the engine running, get on your knees outside of the car and slowly press the gas pedal with your hand while observing how far the pedal has to travel before the engine rpm's start to go up. I have removed about 75% of the free travel that I had by making a new rubber stopper. If you decide that you have a lot of free travel in the pedal, then let me know and I will explain in more detail what I have done. Whenever I find some time I would like to make another rubber stopper that is a little bit thicker than the one I am using now. If it is too thick, then the ECU will throw a check engine light.
 
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