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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Taking first highway trip in Giulia this afternoon. There is conflicting information on whether the A mode is aimed at poor weather conditions or maximum efficiency. Specifically, do you find gas mileage better in A than N? It will be dry, so wet, slick roads will not be a factor on this trip. Thx
 

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Here's FCA's video on DNA:

http://fcauthority.com/2017/01/how-to-use-the-2017-alfa-romeo-giulias-dna-drive-mode-system-video/

Doesn't really help much.

Here's a 2013 explaination of the DNA on a Guiletta, which suggests N is better economy, while A is for inclement weather safety:

http://www.alfaromeo.com.au/alfa-world/blog/389-advantages-of-the-alfa-giulietta-dna-system

Now, the Giulia calls A "Advanced Efficiency Mode", versus the previous "All-Weather Mode" designation. Alfa also states that A allows for cylinder deactivation mode (V-6 only), but others report that cylinder deactivation may occur in N mode too.

So, back to the online owners manual (https://www.alfaromeousa.com/conten...lia/2017-Alfa_Romeo-Giulia-Base-OM-2nd_R1.pdf ), on page 149 it says A is the ECO mode for maximum fuel efficiency.

The best answer seems to be A.
 

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If you can wait 4 more months, I'll do a tank of gas on my normal commute in each mode and let you know the gas mileage difference. Just be patient :)
 

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You can achieve same mileage in N and A if you are very smooth, A just does it for you partially since it flattens down car's response curve...A also changes shift pattern but at speed on hwy it doesnt matter, only additional efficiency benefit is coasting at zero throttle
 

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I don't seem to remember if fuel economy entered into my decision to get the Alfa.:grin2:
 

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Any estimates on how much fuel stop/start (which I doubt any of us bought/leased a Giulia to get) saves in local driving?
 

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Took my Quad for a trip to Atlanta. It was particularly busy on the interstate and decided to try A mode for the first time and of course reset the trip computer. For the next 2 hours was able to achieve 28mpg with average speed of about 75mph. I thought it was rather impressive, albeit boring as ****. It only took 15 minutes in D mode to go back in the teens. As it has been stated, did not buy a Giulia Quadrifoglio for the gas mileage.
 

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Any estimates on how much fuel stop/start (which I doubt any of us bought/leased a Giulia to get) saves in local driving?
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

They measured between 3% and 11% fuel use reduction on their test loop. The lower number being with the A/C running. Of course the results are highly dependent on how many stops of what duration are encountered along the route. Surprisingly, they claim that the EPA does not enable start-stop in their MPG testing.

They did not think to try what I do in my Crosstrek: shift the transmission into neutral when stopping for any significant amount of time. The engine strains against the torque converter when the transmission is in gear, significantly increasing the fuel needed to make the engine idle. I have no idea if this practice is bad for the transmission, although it certainly increases the amount of time required to get the vehicle moving.
 

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There is a group of people that I saw on some car show that pride themselves in stretching every mpg they can get. They coast in neutral, accelerate super slowly, slow down way before a turn so no brakes are needed etc. These are the people that get shot in road rage incidents and the ones that I give the finger to when I'm stuck behind them. They should pedal bikes instead.
 

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I don't seem to remember if fuel economy entered into my decision to get the Alfa.
Probably nobody on this forum bought Giulia for economy....it is just an excercise when on hwy when all traffic is going same speed and you are lane ****** for hours....it really doesnt matter if you are in a Lambo or fiat 500, good efficiency just shows technical excellence of the engine
 

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There is a group of people that I saw on some car show that pride themselves in stretching every mpg they can get. They coast in neutral, accelerate super slowly, slow down way before a turn so no brakes are needed etc. These are the people that get shot in road rage incidents and the ones that I give the finger to when I'm stuck behind them. They should pedal bikes instead.
https://www.facebook.com/LeftLanePrius/
 
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There is a group of people that I saw on some car show that pride themselves in stretching every mpg they can get. They coast in neutral, accelerate super slowly, slow down way before a turn so no brakes are needed etc. These are the people that get shot in road rage incidents and the ones that I give the finger to when I'm stuck behind them. They should pedal bikes instead.
Around here they are just called drivers >:)

Honestly I think most people on the road here in Colorado are either hypermiling or just really stoned.
 

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Probably nobody on this forum bought Giulia for economy....it is just an excercise when on hwy when all traffic is going same speed and you are lane ****** for hours....it really doesnt matter if you are in a Lambo or fiat 500, good efficiency just shows technical excellence of the engine
In fact I selected a Giulia 2.0T in part because of its high fuel efficiency. It was not the only factor, but it was a major factor. The only AWD vehicle to get higher highway MPG that I could find is the amazingly gutless Subaru Impreza; although I am comparing real MPG rather than EPA MPG.

IMO rant follows, skip it if you don't like such things:

Hypermiling is poorly understood by many people, especially the practitioners. The rate of acceleration has almost no bearing on fuel efficiency; revving the engine is the problem. Too many people drive automatic transmission vehicles only, so they equate pushing the accelerator with revving the engine, but gear selection and throttle setting are independent actions. Non-direct injection engines are most efficient at full throttle and the lowest RPM that produces the required power.

A lot of the drivers in my area will accelerate slowly onto the freeway, eventually reaching a high speed. This fails to save fuel, creates a traffic hazard and creates traffic jams.

The rate of deceleration also usually has no bearing on fuel efficiency unless you have a hybrid or electric vehicle with regenerative braking. Accelerating and decelerating uses fuel, but that consumption is pretty much a function of the peak speed that was reached if the engine RPMs were controlled during acceleration. The one time braking gently will help fuel efficiency is when you are approaching a red traffic light that is about to change to green. By braking gently you might be able to avoid needing to "waste" all of your speed; saving both fuel and time in the process.

High speeds will increase fuel consumption, but even then it is not a simple monotonic function. Generally on the highway (sustained speeds) the lowest speed that the engine can maintain while in the highest gear will yield the best fuel economy (I think around 50MPH in Giulia 2.0T). In stop and go traffic it gets a lot more complicated; this is the condition where hybrid and electric vehicles (assuming regenerative braking) are much better than gas vehicles.

To get max fuel economy the hypermiler should be driving behind semi-truck tractors in the outside lane. The people driving slowly in the inside lane are not hypermilers in my experience, they are either idiots or incompetent (often it is older people or novice drivers attempting to avoid the traffic that is merging onto the highway). In many countries (and maybe some states?) this practice is illegal.

One thing a lot of hypermilers seem to never realize is that the whole point of driving a car is to get from point A to point B in a TIMELY fashion. Otherwise walk, bike or public transportation (etc) will use less fuel.

On a related point: the EPA has taken to using a non-sense unit known as "MPGe" for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. The problem is that Miles Per Gallon Equivalent, is not equivalent to gas MPG. Average CO2 emissions are significantly higher for an electric vehicle getting X MPGe as compared to a gas powered vehicle getting the same actual MPG. Even though the "net" CO2 emissions are probably better for the electric vehicle than a similarly equipped gas vehicle (e.g. a Tesla S getting 95MPGe versus a well powered full size sedan getting about 25MPG) the advantage of the electric vehicle is grossly exaggerated by comparing 95 to 25. Multiply MPGe by 0.4 to 0.5 to get a proper environmental equivalence to a gas powered vehicle's MPG. Tesla is still more efficient on average than the similar size and power gas powered car, but it is not nearly 4X better that the numbers suggest. Charging your e-car with your solar panels doesn't change this because if you put that power on the grid instead of in your car it would have reduced emissions from some fossil fuel powered generator somewhere; there are special case exceptions, but on average this is the reality of today.
 

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In fact I selected a Giulia 2.0T in part because of its high fuel efficiency. It was not the only factor, but it was a major factor. The only AWD vehicle to get higher highway MPG that I could find is the amazingly gutless Subaru Impreza; although I am comparing real MPG rather than EPA MPG.

IMO rant follows, skip it if you don't like such things:

Hypermiling is poorly understood by many people, especially the practitioners. The rate of acceleration has almost no bearing on fuel efficiency; revving the engine is the problem. Too many people drive automatic transmission vehicles only, so they equate pushing the accelerator with revving the engine, but gear selection and throttle setting are independent actions. Non-direct injection engines are most efficient at full throttle and the lowest RPM that produces the required power.

A lot of the drivers in my area will accelerate slowly onto the freeway, eventually reaching a high speed. This fails to save fuel, creates a traffic hazard and creates traffic jams.

The rate of deceleration also usually has no bearing on fuel efficiency unless you have a hybrid or electric vehicle with regenerative braking. Accelerating and decelerating uses fuel, but that consumption is pretty much a function of the peak speed that was reached if the engine RPMs were controlled during acceleration. The one time braking gently will help fuel efficiency is when you are approaching a red traffic light that is about to change to green. By braking gently you might be able to avoid needing to "waste" all of your speed; saving both fuel and time in the process.

High speeds will increase fuel consumption, but even then it is not a simple monotonic function. Generally on the highway (sustained speeds) the lowest speed that the engine can maintain while in the highest gear will yield the best fuel economy (I think around 50MPH in Giulia 2.0T). In stop and go traffic it gets a lot more complicated; this is the condition where hybrid and electric vehicles (assuming regenerative braking) are much better than gas vehicles.

To get max fuel economy the hypermiler should be driving behind semi-truck tractors in the outside lane. The people driving slowly in the inside lane are not hypermilers in my experience, they are either idiots or incompetent (often it is older people or novice drivers attempting to avoid the traffic that is merging onto the highway). In many countries (and maybe some states?) this practice is illegal.

One thing a lot of hypermilers seem to never realize is that the whole point of driving a car is to get from point A to point B in a TIMELY fashion. Otherwise walk, bike or public transportation (etc) will use less fuel.

On a related point: the EPA has taken to using a non-sense unit known as "MPGe" for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. The problem is that Miles Per Gallon Equivalent, is not equivalent to gas MPG. Average CO2 emissions are significantly higher for an electric vehicle getting X MPGe as compared to a gas powered vehicle getting the same actual MPG. Even though the "net" CO2 emissions are probably better for the electric vehicle than a similarly equipped gas vehicle (e.g. a Tesla S getting 95MPGe versus a well powered full size sedan getting about 25MPG) the advantage of the electric vehicle is grossly exaggerated by comparing 95 to 25. Multiply MPGe by 0.4 to 0.5 to get a proper environmental equivalence to a gas powered vehicle's MPG. Tesla is still more efficient on average than the similar size and power gas powered car, but it is not nearly 4X better that the numbers suggest. Charging your e-car with your solar panels doesn't change this because if you put that power on the grid instead of in your car it would have reduced emissions from some fossil fuel powered generator somewhere; there are special case exceptions, but on average this is the reality of today.
You must be a hit at cocktail parties.
 
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"on a related point"
"you must be a hit at cocktail parties"

my personal objection on the electric car stuff, aside from being powered by coal, is that everyone has to subsidize it, from the manufacturers who want to sell in CA, to the surcharge on our electric bills, to the "free" charging stations at stores etc.
especially regarding tesla as a company and the expensive tesla, this is wealthfare at its worst.
and we all have to subsidize ethanal fuel, which no one wants, and that caused prices of corn/food to go up worldwide.

more on this threads original point, though, is whether when the Quadrifoglio is set to A and mimics a Laverda Jota, is it a useful/seamless driving experience, that perhaps a spouse who doesn't appreciate big horsepower would enjoy and find comparable to a NA six cylinder vehicle?
 

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more on this threads original point, though, is whether when the Quadrifoglio is set to A and mimics a Laverda Jota, is it a useful/seamless driving experience, that perhaps a spouse who doesn't appreciate big horsepower would enjoy and find comparable to a NA six cylinder vehicle?
Sounds like a red key/black key option might be in order. AR to take a page from FCA corporate cousin Hellcat's playbook?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I can now tell you from my own "testing" that the A mode is indeed incredibly efficient. For 200 miles of hwy driving with a/c and a couple of stops, I got 38 mpg. I was by no means artificially seeking hyper mileage. Then for the next 75 miles of city driving I kept it in A just to see how much it would pull down that mpg. It came down to 32 (still great). Before doing this I generally drive in D and N - maybe half and half and was averaging about 22 mpg.

So Alfa really got that efficiency mode right. Passing power is still there when needed. I did not buy this for the efficiency, but I love what I call the triple nature of this car. It's a beast when you want it to be, or it's a quiet luxury cruiser and/or it's super efficient.
 

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thank you, bellajulia
the triple nature is what I'm after - a lusso interior would be a nice option on Quadrifoglios.

I am hoping that idea goes a step further in the Stelvio Quadrifoglio, with the Race mode like the new M5, disabling the AWD.

Because many on the board suggest getting a truck for winter, and my wife's workmates all suggest she get AWD for winter (although she really doesn't have any difficulty without it), an Alfa truck seems a good compromise haha.

And in the spring it would have the ability to carry more potted plants and gardening supplies - and I like the available trailer hitch for hauling motorcycles. I am quite sick of having to also own trucks/vans for their usefulness.

Yes, I want it all and I want it now. Now started about 40 years ago for me, so I've been waiting a long time for now to get here ...
 
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