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Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday early morning, I was on my way into work. It had rained the day before, and the temps dropped below freezing at night. It was sunny when I was driving so the asphalt in the sun wasn't frozen. However, as I was leaving my street onto the main road, there were wet leaves on the street and when I turned left, my car went into the shadow of the trees. The wet asphalt in the shadow had ice on it. Hitting the wet leaves on ice was like greased glass. I felt the back end start to go around on me, and I instinctively corrected with the steering wheel. All of a sudden I felt each wheel independently adjusting itself, and within 2 seconds the slide had stopped and the car regained its composure. When this began I looked at the dash but there weren't any TCS lights on, yet I could definitely feel the AWD and traction control system engage. What surprised me was how smooth and 'soft' it was. There wasn't any hard clamping of the brakes or anything dramatic.

Wet leaves on black ice is probably about as slippery a condition as I'll ever encounter, and the Giulia was absolutely amazing. The quiet and calm speed with which it adjusted itself to regain control was seriously impressive. I've had this car just over a year now, and it still has the ability to amaze and impress me.
 

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2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
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Wet leaves on black ice describes our driveway at times. I experience what you describe pulling out of our garage. Just enough tail slide to start the day with smile.
 

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Nice feedback! I live in Texas and we seldom get that type of weather but when we do it is usually pretty bad. Not so much snow, ice is more common.

Venere
 

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Best AWD system on the market. ;)
 

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Best AWD system on the market. ;)
If someone could figure out how to disable ESC and traction control, maybe a Giulia Rally Car could happen?
 

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Hi, my name is Jesse and I'm from Minnesota. :p I love to hear road condition stories/experiences from people who actually have terrible road conditions to complain about. I just picked up my Giulia about two weeks ago, and unfortunately (should I really say that?) I haven't encountered any inclement weather or bad road conditions yet. I've tried to throw her off on some wet roads, WOT, acting a fool... nothing but composure. She's amazing.
 

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Driving uphill on mud the first thing to notice is that you get about 1/2 second of wheel spin then the nannies cut everything.
The second thing to notice is that the car gets seriously plastered, at least up to the outside mirrors.
 

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So good it isn't always entertaining?
 

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If someone could figure out how to disable ESC and traction control, maybe a Giulia Rally Car could happen?
Already have that! ;) TC/ABS and start/stop OFF.
 

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Already have that! ;) TC/ABS and start/stop OFF.
Do tell.

FWIW: 2 weeks ago (early June) the east side of Sonora Pass was wet and below freezing (sudden temperature drop at the top of the pass). Perhaps it was more like ABS to the rescue, but the car managed to find some traction when it was desperately needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The composure this car has is amazing. When cornering at... shall we say "brisk" speeds, the control you have on turn in, going into, through and out of the apex is simply superb. And that's on Michelin all-season tires, not high performance summer tires.

This car is an absolute jewel.
 

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My wife was none too happy with me last night... hitting .88 Gs around a cloverleaf and goosing it at the top got it sliding a bit. NO indication that she (Giulia) was going to have stability issues coming out of that turn. This is on the Pirelli P7 Cinturato all season run flats. A better tire is definitely needed. It is so composed, all of the time.
 

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Do tell.

FWIW: 2 weeks ago (early June) the east side of Sonora Pass was wet and below freezing (sudden temperature drop at the top of the pass). Perhaps it was more like ABS to the rescue, but the car managed to find some traction when it was desperately needed.
Already had a few Q4 owners and Q2 owners install. Suspension is maintained for those with active.



INFORMATION:

Switching off the ABS/ESC system


Turn the DNA button to the A or N position.

Insert the ABS/TC off dongle into the EOBD plug. The green LED indicates that there is

power on the dongle. The red LED is for optional Bluetooth communication and will flash.

The ABS and ESC and thus the traction control can be switched off via the D-position of the

DNA button. Switching on or off requires that the car is stationary. It does not matter whether

the engine is running or not.Also the position of the gear shift or automatic mode is not

important.We recommend the neutral position with a manual gearbox, the P-position with an

automatic gearbox. Also the useage of the foot brake or hand brake has no influence.

When you choose the D-position the following happens:

The ABS, ESC, red exclamation mark and, for most versions, the “Forward Collision Warning

OFF” lights up.

The warning messages (accompanied by an audible tone) which appear on the screen

between the tachometer and speedometer are successively:

• “ABS not available”

The wheels can now lock under very hard braking

• “Have the braking system checked”

This is a general warning

• “ESC (Electronic Stability Control) not available”

This system controls, amongst other things, the conscious Traction Control as well as

over- and understeer.

• “Have electronic parking brake checked”

The parking brake does not work anymore.

• “Hill Holder control not available”

The car is no longer held on a small slope with driving away

• “AST not available”

AST stands for Alfa Steering Torque). In dangerous situations (eg with hard braking

on surfaces with different grip) it influences the power steering, so that the driver can

imagine how he should keep the steering wheel to improve the stability of the

vehicle. Something that a real driver hates.

A few moments later, two more messages appear:

• “Automatic Highbeam not available”

• “FCW operation limited camera front check”

For cars with electronic shock absorbers the warning appears that it “requires maintenance”.

However it switches to the “hard” configuration.



After a few cycles of the above warnings, the warning messages stop and the normal display

reappears. This can be accelerated by pressing the button on the right steering rod. This

allows the cycles to be pressed until the normal display is visible again. The warning lights in

the cluster display will remain on.

Switching on the ABS/ESC system



Re-enabling the ABS is done simply by turning the DNA knob back to N or A. Switching on

takes about 4 seconds and one can hear that everything is being activated again. When you

hold your foot on the brake pedal, you will feel a reaction from re-engaging ABS system in

the brake pedal.

Note: switching off the electronic parking brake still works but the parking brake is no longer

applied. Always set the car flat, or keep the foot on the brake pressed or put the automatic

gearbox in P.
 

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I'm all for a Race mode on 4 cyl vehicles, but does anybody really want to disable the ABS?
Just curious.
Yes. Current Q4 owner who wanted it disabled is a Track instructor. Just did a run at blackhawk farms (Just outside of Chicago) few days ago for their monthly track day. He told me it worked wonderful.

"I was at Blackhawk Farms yesterday for the regular monthly auto track day. I’m an instructor so it wasn’t until after lunch that I tried it out in anger. As expected, the lack of TC was never a problem (AR should have more confidence in their product and allow the ESC to be deselected by the user). I thought that the lack of ABS might be a problem giving the Continental BBW system but I found the brakes were easily modulated and only had a few minor lock-ups initially and they were momentary and easily corrected."
 

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sure, a lot of us started driving in, and still have cars that don't have anti-lock brakes.
siure, you can modulate good brakes, but the point is you have to back off when the tire with the least traction starts to lock up. not that corner, all of them. unless he has double motorcycle controls, one for each foot and hand. it just plain won't slow or stop you as quickly, or with anywhere near as much control.

so if that is the point of this instructor - to demonstrate how well it works, great.
and if the point is to save on his tire and brake wear, because he can't use them anywhere near as hard with it disabled, and it's costing him a fortune, fair enough.

otherwise .... why would someone want to reduce their braking capability.
 

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sure, a lot of us started driving in, and still have cars that don't have anti-lock brakes.
siure, you can modulate good brakes, but the point is you have to back off when the tire with the least traction starts to lock up. not that corner, all of them. unless he has double motorcycle controls, one for each foot and hand. it just plain won't slow or stop you as quickly, or with anywhere near as much control.

so if that is the point of this instructor - to demonstrate how well it works, great.
and if the point is to save on his tire and brake wear, because he can't use them anywhere near as hard with it disabled, and it's costing him a fortune, fair enough.

otherwise .... why would someone want to reduce their braking capability.
I think it can be good or bad depending on the track.

"Generally, on a smooth circuit I much prefer no ABS. it cuts in too early, always at threashold when you have already pared your braking distance to the bone. Once it triggers it massively increases the braking distance and you almost certainly need run off to collect the car. On a bumpier circuit with surfaces of varying grip levels such as the ring or in wet conditions, it becomes more useful. If you run it, in an ideal world you need to run a motorsport optimised abs unit which - if availiable - are very expensive otherwise you will trigger it a lot more often you quicker you get. If you don't run it you will need a brake balance adjustment to change bias as conditions change. If not you will constantly lock your fronts in conditions of low grip which is far from ideal.

Not an easy choice but in general, most experienced drivers prefer not to have it on smooth surfaces but as i say, it needs to be replaced with an in car adjustable bias."

"I've found that at certain tracks braking at the point when the ABS kicks in is helpful. Brake late, ABS kicks in, you're still going too fast to turn-in, so your only choice is to get-out of the brakes altogether & haul on some lock to make the corner. This will provide a good apex speed. With an ABS-equipped car at the track I'd say you're braking too early if you're not constantly leaning on the ABS. Admittedly turning in with the ABS pulsing away will lead to too much understeer & a clumsy transition from braking to power - impacting on weight transfer & it is nuance in front-to-back weight transfer which separates experienced track drivers from the less experienced or the plainly ham-fisted."

For the most part, those that are tracking the car and are novice, I'd keep the ABS in-tact. Those that are seasoned most likely know when and when not to have it. Most seem to prefer without it. I think mainly, yes they are use to it but also some of the points above, you have more control if you know what you are doing. I am not a seasoned track driver but I never had ABS on any of my cars until lately. Many Alfa's I had did not have it too.

Overall NO ABS or TC gives you better feel for the car, requires a bit more skill.
 

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crappy ABS fine,
this is better than a human can compensate for, and sorry, being able to adjust your bias front rear doesn't take care of adjusting left to right.
the reason the car is capable of eating tires and pads is because the brake system is so good.
the problem with it is that it stays good, you do not feel fade, the sign of overheating, and continue to push, wearing out your tires and pads, and .... see the other brake thread
better off putting crappier tires on and using the ABS for track use. if anyone was actually racing the car they would have to come up with different solutions - ask Al.

personally I think the esc is pretty much unnecessary with the awd, which is a nanny in and of itself, although the lesser modes are "easier" on snow/ice than R is - it is still manageable and predicable with 500 hp. but as Clint says, a man has to know his limitations, and being an ex-racer pre-electronic aids in fast and competitive classes, I know I can't do better than these brakes do, regardless of the surface. even IF I had four controls I couldn't react as quickly.

anyone who thinks they can has a far bigger ego than I do haha
 

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He responded to me and I missunderstood his intentions:

"I don’t want the ABS disabled! Since the mid 80’s (E30 M3 in my case), the OEM’s have taken advantage of ABS to increase the proportion of braking effort provided by the rear brakes to increase overall braking efficiency, confident that the ABS will prevent rear lockup.

Disabling the ABS as the dongle currently provides means rear brake lockup may limit overall brake effectiveness. "
 

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crappy ABS fine,
this is better than a human can compensate for, and sorry, being able to adjust your bias front rear doesn't take care of adjusting left to right.
the reason the car is capable of eating tires and pads is because the brake system is so good.
the problem with it is that it stays good, you do not feel fade, the sign of overheating, and continue to push, wearing out your tires and pads, and .... see the other brake thread
better off putting crappier tires on and using the ABS for track use. if anyone was actually racing the car they would have to come up with different solutions - ask Al.

personally I think the esc is pretty much unnecessary with the awd, which is a nanny in and of itself, although the lesser modes are "easier" on snow/ice than R is - it is still manageable and predicable with 500 hp. but as Clint says, a man has to know his limitations, and being an ex-racer pre-electronic aids in fast and competitive classes, I know I can't do better than these brakes do, regardless of the surface. even IF I had four controls I couldn't react as quickly.

anyone who thinks they can has a far bigger ego than I do haha
Ex-racer? Certainly you weren't racing cars on a hard surface, that's for sure. That said, I agree with everything you said. I wonder how many people remember the sensation of flat spotting a tire?
 
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