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I understand that a manual transmission is sold in Europe. I won't even consider this car unless this option is offered. Do you think it will happen?
 

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I understand that a manual transmission is sold in Europe. I won't even consider this car unless this option is offered. Do you think it will happen?
Nope....ain't going to happen. If that's a deal-killer for you, look elsewhere.
 

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i spoke to a friend in Italy that drove both the manual and the auto. believe me he said that the paddle shifter are the way to go. yes i know you like me want to really feel the car shifting gears have a real driving experience however, he said that the manual is a little notchy if anyone remembers the VW corrando in the 90's. don't let it kill the deal it was almost a dealer breaker for me but after i spoke to him and then test drove a regular giulia with paddle shifters I was sold... good luck!!!!!
 

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think they're generally being phased out in many car brands. Makes me laugh on the AR Facebook page the amount of people mentioning manual.. wonder if they go on Lambo's and ask away there too? :D

'For me' the improved Ring time was a very good indication to why they won't bother with it
 

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Don't hold your breath. For several reasons.

The 2.0L petrol isn't available with a manual, anywhere in the world.

The manual is only available in continental Europe, on the 136hp, 150hp, and 180hp diesels, and on the Quadrifoglio.

The take rate for manuals in that area and on those versions is low.

70-75% of diesel customers opt for the auto (90% on the 180hp). On the Quadrifoglio (again, only where the choice is available) you're looking at >80% auto.
 

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Salve MacGeek

Don't hold your breath. For several reasons.

The 2.0L petrol isn't available with a manual, anywhere in the world.

The manual is only available in continental Europe, on the 136hp, 150hp, and 180hp diesels, and on the Quadrifoglio.

The take rate for manuals in that area and on those versions is low.

70-75% of diesel customers opt for the auto (90% on the 180hp). On the Quadrifoglio (again, only where the choice is available) you're looking at >80% auto.
Hello MacGeek! nice to have you here!...Gentleman this fellow is from FerrariChat and seems to have some "intimate" knowledge of the Alfa Giulia and the brand in general....appreciate you coming on here!
Regards
Dai Baracca
 

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This is why I miss my manual transmission:

1.) You never forget to shift because shifting is required at all times when driving a MT. With an automatic while in paddle mode it is easy to forget to shift.

2.) You can skip a gear such as going directly from 4th to 2nd gear. With an automatic you have to progress sequentially through ALL of the gears.

3.) You can freely coast. With an automatic you are ALWAYS in a gear without exception.

4.) You can execute a civilized launch, or an aggressive one. The driver decides, not the computer.

5.) You always know what gear you are in. With an automatic while in paddle mode the car will downshift for you, and so it's easy to lose track of what gear you are in.

6.) If you are not sure of what gear you are in with a MT, you can intuitively figure it out by feeling where the shift lever is. There is no need to look down at the tach or gear indicator on the dash.

7.) If the driver has any skill at all, it is possible to shift just as fast or faster than the automatic transmission in the Giulia. I have sometimes noticed with my QV that shifts at high rpm when going from 2nd to 3rd can be a mushy and slow rather than crisp and quick like it would be with a MT.

8.) When driving like a civilized person in the city it is possible to leave the transmission in a higher gear (like 3rd or 4th gear) while approaching a stop light, which will provide a moderate amount of compression braking, and then complete the stop by depressing the clutch and coasting to a stop while braking. Stopping with the Giulia automatic transmission can be jerky because of the downshifting. (It is posssible that the QV has a lot more compression braking compared to the base models.)
 

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Hello MacGeek! nice to have you here!...Gentleman this fellow is from FerrariChat and seems to have some "intimate" knowledge of the Alfa Giulia and the brand in general....appreciate you coming on here!
I would love to see 'Rari pics! :D
 

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I saw a video review that said the manual did not pass US crash tests. The clutch pedal was cutting off the dummy's foot. So to avoid lawsuits up the ying-yang, Alfa just decided to not offer it in the US. Take it for what it's worth, the reviewer did say that was the "rumor" they heard.

.
 

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OK - I'll go against the grain and say they will offer a manual at some point.

It makes sense to me as to why they went with the automatic first - that's what they will sell more of. The US AR guy said in an interview posted here that they believe the 'take' rate on the manual would be ~10%. Would you want to alienate 10% of the customers? When sales start to lag that 10% (for a configuration that exists in the lineup elsewhere in the world) will look mighty inviting. Can you say 'Giulia Speciale' edition? And we will be back to the dealers charging MSRP + $10k for that version.

As for being faster around the 'Ring, that has got to be one of the most worthless measures for a street car that was ever invented by the PR/marketing departments. I can see that conversation now:

Owner: 'Hey Doug, did you see my new car?'
Neighbor: 'You mean the red one?'
Owner: 'Yea, it's an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio'.
Neighbor: "Quadri-what?'
Owner: 'Quadrifoglio, it means 4 leaf clover.'
Neighbor: 'Oh.'
Owner: ‘You know, it goes around the Nurburgring in 7:32.'
Neighbor: 'Nurburg-what?'
Owner: ' Nurburgring. It’s a track in Germany.'
Neighbor: 'Oh. By the way, where is your car?'
Owner: 'It’s in the shop.'
Neighbor: 'Oh'.

Now, if it can go 3 years without visiting the service department, that's an accomplishment!
 

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johnzcarz, MacGeek, welcome!

I've PM'd with MacGeek back on FerrariChat. I appreciate the inside view of the European market. Johnz, It's not just the Nurburgring but the Nordschleife. Real, deeply passionate car people know this. And guess what? The Quad set the first record with the manual. The Porsche Panamera Turbo beat it. Alfa went back with the auto and won it back. Now a torque converter might not be as fast as an F1 robotic manual, but there is a reason the F1 was invented. It IS faster than any human can shift (when programmed so like in a Speciale, Challenge Stradale or Scuderia TCU). If this wasn't the case, F1 teams would still use a manual.
 
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This is why I miss my manual transmission:

1.) You never forget to shift because shifting is required at all times when driving a MT. With an automatic while in paddle mode it is easy to forget to shift.

2.) You can skip a gear such as going directly from 4th to 2nd gear. With an automatic you have to progress sequentially through ALL of the gears.

3.) You can freely coast. With an automatic you are ALWAYS in a gear without exception.

4.) You can execute a civilized launch, or an aggressive one. The driver decides, not the computer.

5.) You always know what gear you are in. With an automatic while in paddle mode the car will downshift for you, and so it's easy to lose track of what gear you are in.

6.) If you are not sure of what gear you are in with a MT, you can intuitively figure it out by feeling where the shift lever is. There is no need to look down at the tach or gear indicator on the dash.

7.) If the driver has any skill at all, it is possible to shift just as fast or faster than the automatic transmission in the Giulia. I have sometimes noticed with my QV that shifts at high rpm when going from 2nd to 3rd can be a mushy and slow rather than crisp and quick like it would be with a MT.

8.) When driving like a civilized person in the city it is possible to leave the transmission in a higher gear (like 3rd or 4th gear) while approaching a stop light, which will provide a moderate amount of compression braking, and then complete the stop by depressing the clutch and coasting to a stop while braking. Stopping with the Giulia automatic transmission can be jerky because of the downshifting. (It is posssible that the QV has a lot more compression braking compared to the base models.)
germ and bigk200,

Instead of rejecting it outright, give it a try. A number of the objections listed above have already been addressed. An automatic is not operated the same as a manual, but that doesn't mean that it can't do what is needed:

1) True. This would be less of an issue if the engine made more noise. Maybe piping fake engine sound over the sound system like a eco-tech Ford Mustang would solve the problem?

2) Not really true. Hold the paddles down and the transmission is supposed to be able to jump between gears. ZF says that their 8 speed is not sequential, unlike other automatic transmissions.

3) Not really true. You can pop the automatic into neutral, put it in A mode, or upshift.

4) Not true. Use the 2 foot launch technique. You have to use 2 feet to launch your manual too, although what you do with your left foot is pretty different.

5, 6) See item 1). Also note that a manual means that the footwell and center console are more crowded and the crowded footwell can be particularly problematic on rough roads.

7) I do not believe this. Only a DCT or an F1 style non-synchronized sequential transmission (also used in most motorcycles) will shift faster than the ZF 8speed automatic transmission. The point being that synchronizers can only work so fast and the greater the torque capacity of the transmission the slower the shifts. Manual transmission shifts may seem fast to the driver, but the driver is preoccupied with operating the shifter and clutch.

8) To drive in a civilized manner in town, put your Giulia in A mode and/or pop the transmission into neutral as you stop. You can also hit the upshift paddle. One person reported that it is possible to start in a higher gear by hitting upshift while stopped.
 

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"...Now a torque converter might not be as fast as an F1 robotic manual, but there is a reason the F1 was invented. It IS faster than any human can shift (when programmed so like in a Speciale, Challenge Stradale or Scuderia TCU). If this wasn't the case, F1 teams would still use a manual." -John_K_348

Speaking of F1, why do most all reviewers say, when talking about the paddles, that they are on the column WHERE THEY SHOULD BE?? F1 cars have them on the steering wheel. Personally, I like them on the wheel and always right under my finger tips. The Giulia's are nice and long, and usually within reach, but not always.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I seriously doubt they will offer a manual. I also think if you drive the Giulia you won't care. The automatic is that good!

Like it or not automatics are the future. There is an entire generation coming up that doesn't even want to steer the car, they sure don't want to shift.

Greg
I don't care how good the automatic is and I don't care if it shaves a second off the 'Ring lap time.
I just won't buy a car without a clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I saw a video review that said the manual did not pass US crash tests. The clutch pedal was cutting off the dummy's foot. So to avoid lawsuits up the ying-yang, Alfa just decided to not offer it in the US. Take it for what it's worth, the reviewer did say that was the "rumor" they heard.

.
Interesting. Not exactly confidence inspiring in the giulia crash test resistance.
 

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I saw a video review that said the manual did not pass US crash tests. The clutch pedal was cutting off the dummy's foot. So to avoid lawsuits up the ying-yang, Alfa just decided to not offer it in the US. Take it for what it's worth, the reviewer did say that was the "rumor" they heard.
That's not what they said. They said they heard of such an issue about Smarts, and they somewhat jokingly wondered whether the Giulia's case was of similar nature (it's not).

I would love to see 'Rari pics! :D
Why would I have a Ferrari when I can have an Alfa? (or two)

They're the 16th and 17th Alfas in my family.
 

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"...Now a torque converter might not be as fast as an F1 robotic manual, but there is a reason the F1 was invented. It IS faster than any human can shift (when programmed so like in a Speciale, Challenge Stradale or Scuderia TCU). If this wasn't the case, F1 teams would still use a manual." -John_K_348

Speaking of F1, why do most all reviewers say, when talking about the paddles, that they are on the column WHERE THEY SHOULD BE?? F1 cars have them on the steering wheel. Personally, I like them on the wheel and always right under my finger tips. The Giulia's are nice and long, and usually within reach, but not always.
If the wheel needs to be turned hand over hand (more than a bit past 90 degrees or so) such as for hairpin turns it gets really difficult to find the right paddle to hit if the paddles are mounted on the steering wheel. This problem is evident with my wife's Crosstrek, which has small paddles on the steering wheel. I can't tell you if Giulia is easier to operate, but I hope so. On Giulia you can also "take a swing" at the shift lever rally car style (OK, rally car shift levers are much taller, I presume to make them easier to "hit"), unlike the Crosstrek.

I am going to guess that F1 cars and the tracks they are driven on are such that the steering is never turned that far. Both hands on the wheel at all times. Fast cars that are not necessarily nice to drive.

Modern automatics yield better fuel economy, better acceleration, less smog and less engine wear than manuals. This wasn't true only a few years ago.

I dunno about top speed, and they are usually heavier than a manual.
 

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germ and bigk200,

Instead of rejecting it outright, give it a try. A number of the objections listed above have already been addressed. An automatic is not operated the same as a manual, but that doesn't mean that it can't do what is needed:

1) True. This would be less of an issue if the engine made more noise. Maybe piping fake engine sound over the sound system like a eco-tech Ford Mustang would solve the problem?

2) Not really true. Hold the paddles down and the transmission is supposed to be able to jump between gears. ZF says that their 8 speed is not sequential, unlike other automatic transmissions.

3) Not really true. You can pop the automatic into neutral, put it in A mode, or upshift.

4) Not true. Use the 2 foot launch technique. You have to use 2 feet to launch your manual too, although what you do with your left foot is pretty different.

5, 6) See item 1). Also note that a manual means that the footwell and center console are more crowded and the crowded footwell can be particularly problematic on rough roads.

7) I do not believe this. Only a DCT or an F1 style non-synchronized sequential transmission (also used in most motorcycles) will shift faster than the ZF 8speed automatic transmission. The point being that synchronizers can only work so fast and the greater the torque capacity of the transmission the slower the shifts. Manual transmission shifts may seem fast to the driver, but the driver is preoccupied with operating the shifter and clutch.

8) To drive in a civilized manner in town, put your Giulia in A mode and/or pop the transmission into neutral as you stop. You can also hit the upshift paddle. One person reported that it is possible to start in a higher gear by hitting upshift while stopped.
We will have to agree to disagree on most of the points that you made. For example in #4 you advise using the 2 foot method to launch. That is a ridiculously impractical solution for getting a quick (not a burn out) launch when the light turns green. That technique would require anticipating and preparing for a green light, which is just not going to happen on a regular basis because it is so impractical.
 
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