Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
261 - 280 of 303 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
Having owned multiples of both, they truly were not.
Some are, some are not.

The "larger" cars (A4 and up) have proper aluminium suspension components and are clearly "more" than a Golf.

The rear axle from a FWD A3 could just aswell be from a Skoda. Or a toy car. They are many things, but certainly not "premium". People don't care about that and - as the larger cars usually have better parts - the public believes the "premium" story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,235 Posts
Some are, some are not.

The "larger" cars (A4 and up) have proper aluminium suspension components and are clearly "more" than a Golf.

The rear axle from a FWD A3 could just aswell be from a Skoda. Or a toy car. They are many things, but certainly not "premium". People don't care about that and - as the larger cars usually have better parts - the public believes the "premium" story.
I guess that’s the key then. I’ve had 3 Golfs, 1 Jetta and 1 Passat. They were all crap compared to my A4 and Q5.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
Joined
·
416 Posts
You also, as you mentioned, have the Japanese brands pushing Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, and Nissan/Infinity. You also have the Korean Hyundai/Kia now offering Genesis as its own standalone brand. So to imply badge engineering is a dead idea is not true. You have a new merger/acquisition with a lot of brands now to manage. I could see Alfa turning into a "Mercury" for Fiat and that would just kill me. Like you, I do not have a Crystal ball... But the minus Nissan, the Japanese automakers are killing it and Stellantis could be looking to emulate some of what they are doing for the profits.
What the Japanese brands did is far different than the traditional badge engineering. The foreign companies literally created brands for Americans who were too snooty to buy a luxury Japanese car. That was done in the early 90's since then the brands have expanded outside of the US (the world has no shortage of snooty people), but using Toyota as an example, there are no markets where they are selling a nearly identical vehicle as both a Toyota and a Lexus (save the Land Cruiser though there is a LOT of difference between them styling, interior, and even performance wise). Otherwise we are in agreement, I think thats exactly what they are planning to do while still maintaining the flavor of the independent brands.

Let's have a clearer definition of Platform sharing vs. badge engineering, shall we?

Platform sharing:
  • The underlying components (e.g. major parts such as the engine & drive train, suspension design, etc, and miscellaneous bits, such as knobs & buttons, hinges, nuts & bolts, etc.) are shared
  • Primary visual design elements such as body, dashboard, center console, etc., are not shared
  • e.g. VW Golf/Jetta and Audi A3/TT
Badge engineering:
  • Underlying components as well as primary visual design elements, such as body, dashboard, center console, etc., are shared
  • The differentiation often being just minor differences in trim pieces such as grille, bumpers, lights, and maybe more luxurious materials inside.
  • Same car being re-branded in different markets e.g. some of the Lexus/Toyota models
  • e.g. Most Mercury/Ford products of the 80's and 90's.
So, by those definitions, badge engineering bad, platform sharing good. I think we can all agree on that?

Now, based on the previous announcement of Alfa/Lancia/DS are jointly developing cars, the likelihood of Alfa turning into a "Mercury" for Fiat is pretty much nil. In fact even right now the Alfa/Fiat has almost zero target market overlap. However those 3 same brands Alfa/Lancia/DS will definitely be platform sharing, and if they are not smart about it, badge engineering.
Agreed this is a good explanation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
QVs and GTAs were designed to attract attention so that people buy the “ volume sellers”. Unfortunately small/ medium sedans are not volume sellers for anyone now. Not everyone is a driving enthusiast. Then the strategy was to develop the Stelvio to take on the growing segment. It was designed with the Porsche Maycan as an influence. If we look at Alfa’s marketing failure we should look more at the Stelvio than the Giulia As SUVs are where the action is now, volume wise. The next growing segment will be electric but that will be more about tech stuff than the things that turn us on so things will be tough for Alfa. But yes if FCA wanted to put reliability questions to bed it would have offered better warranties as well as slightly lower prices.
 

·
Registered
2018 Ti Sport Q2
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
@Richardalfa I agree, the trend away from cars and towards SUVs is obvious.

This might be a tangent, but what baffles me is the …. cognitive-dissonance/hypocrisy. People are voting for policies/politicians who outlaw ICE based automobiles supposedly due to environmentalism, and then they go out and buy larger-less-efficient SUVs in larger numbers than ever before.

Is it just me or, does something just not add up there?
/end-rant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Here's the photo on hybrids from the 2018 Alfa strategy presentation. I was talking about "e-booster" but it looks like they had other hybrid plans too...
110948
 

·
Registered
2018 Vulcano Black Giulia Quadrifoglio
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
@Richardalfa I agree, the trend away from cars and towards SUVs is obvious.

This might be a tangent, but what baffles me is the …. cognitive-dissonance/hypocrisy. People are voting for policies/politicians who outlaw ICE based automobiles supposedly due to environmentalism, and then they go out and buy larger-less-efficient SUVs in larger numbers than ever before.

Is it just me or, does something just not add up there?
/end-rant
People like SUVs for the taller ride height and visibility, but if everyone drove low sedans like the giulia, then visibility wouldn't be an issue. I like being so low to the ground though. Makes me feel more connected.

People also like SUVs for the cargo space but most of these crossovers have very small but tall trunks which are silly. Give me foldable rear seats (I have an 18) and that's all I really need.

Sedans really are the best of all worlds. Sporty and practical.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia
Joined
·
609 Posts
Sedans really are the best of all worlds. Sporty and practical.
True story. Test drove some hatches even before settling on the Giulia. Same or not as much leg room in back and storage areas were abysmal. The trunk is way more practical unless you’re folding your seats down all the time for animals or something. 51 out of 52 weeks a year, the sedan is more practical.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia
Joined
·
609 Posts
Don't overthink this. All Alfa ever needed was a Giulia back to the A-pillar and an ever-so-slightly compressed Maserati GT from the A-pillar back (Maserati has a slighty longer wheelbase).
I like this. The Giulietta front end is atrocious (IMO) compared to the Giulia. Put the Giulia front end with a elongated Giulietta rear and I'd be trying to turn my lease in early for that on looks alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,000 Posts
Lets be honest, the idea of Alfa taking on BMW/Mercedes/Audi in hindsight seems pretty dumb. They made a great first impression with an absolutely killer car,
agree. Should of just went after M cars. AMG and RS line. I said it many times that Alfa should of only made quadrofoglio variants for first 2-3 years to create a buzz. All it’s hype was over the ring times etc. Plenty of 2.0 buyers would of bought a QV if it was only Alfa available. One engine. One car and the techs would of been able to keep up. Throwing two completely different engines on similar cars was its downfall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
This might kick start this discussion again......

The article is about 24 hours old from Autocar.

Stellantis boss pledges 10-year investment plan for Alfa Romeo | Autocar

Conveniently, for debating such things on forums like this, what is said can be read to support opinions that either:

A/ Alfa will be all over by 2030

or

B/ There is hope for revitalising the brand as a result of of a parent company/leadership that might understand what it needs to do....and may also have the $ to invest to get it done.

Let the speculation begin!
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia
Joined
·
609 Posts
That is promising. I hope they really mean 10 years of funding. That would be great for Alfa. No mention of the North American market either way. I hope they invest in us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
I am being facetious. I don't care for Tesla or Elon. I'm working out of my Fremont office this week and ugh, I hate that any direction I look, I see cars from the movie Cars. Like wow, no.

But, back on topic. Stellantis is writing 10 years checks on what money? Which Swiss bank do they have this secret stash in?

Funny you should mention Elon.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia
Joined
·
609 Posts
I am being facetious. I don't care for Tesla or Elon. I'm working out of my Fremont office this week and ugh, I hate that any direction I look, I see cars from the movie Cars. Like wow, no.

But, back on topic. Stellantis is writing 10 years checks on what money? Which Swiss bank do they have this secret stash in?
For starters it looks like Chrysler may be dropping half of with the brand becoming a “mobility brand.”


You also have some highly profitable brands in under Stellantis control. Ram, right now, is killing it.

To the point @Biscione made, money will also be saved on not buying all of the carbon credits.



Funding does not mean “unlimited cash” and each division will be fighting for its cash with the big bosses at Stellantis. My concern now is that the NA market may get the axe from Alfa. If we are not profitable, and they do not see the possibility of profits by 2031, they could continue to fund the brand but only in Europe.

They have also reconfirmed that Giorgio platform will be phased out. We knew this was going to happen... but too soon... too soon...
 
261 - 280 of 303 Posts
Top