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Miata is already repackaged as a Fiat, so why not repackage it as a Alfa, make it pretty with the Alfa nose and stuff, drop in the Giulia's 2.0 and a stick or the ZF and bam!
It did occur to me too actually. Use the same Miata frame, the Giulia’s 2.0L, prop-shaft(shorter of course) and Zf transmission. Larger wheels. Use the same composite material for the bodywork that they used on the 4C. The added power and design would be cool and maybe enough of a differentiator?

I imagine it would be a TZ-like coupe.
 

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One of Sergio’s principles for AR’s revival was that Alfa Romeos were built in Italy and nowhere but Italy. Hiroshima didn’t pass the test.
 

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Yes, but Sergio is gone and this brand is close to extinction loosely speaking.
 
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I think I read somewhere recently, that they will be making new models in Poland.

I'd prefer if Alfas were only manufactured in Italy, of course.
 

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I think I read somewhere recently, that they will be making new models in Poland.

I'd prefer if Alfas were only manufactured in Italy, of course.
Yes, apparently the mini SUV (Brennero?) is to be made in Poland on the same line as the FIAT an JEEP version of the same car. I understand this was an FCA decision made prior to the formal creation of Stellantis.
 

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It did occur to me too actually. Use the same Miata frame, the Giulia’s 2.0L, prop-shaft(shorter of course) and Zf transmission. Larger wheels. Use the same composite material for the bodywork that they used on the 4C. The added power and design would be cool and maybe enough of a differentiator?

I imagine it would be a TZ-like coupe.
You know, lots of people drop the ugly GM V8s into the Miata. I'd rather do this as a project (If I had the time).
 
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That's how you manipulate an industry. Even CEOs get bullied.



Electricfied turbos have more potential points of failure than traditional exhaust driven turbos. If this is the basic 48v Garrett electric compressor, a number of modifications would have to be made to "tolerate" high performance applications. This is not a performance turbo. It shouldn't be put on anything other than a prius.

The alternative is wedge type electrification where the turbo keeps the exhaust impeller and the electrical part of this turbo operates as a part time system or full time in high performance situations. In this arrangement, the electric motor is subject to incredibly high temperatures over a long period of time. This motor would absolutely need liquid cooling to maintain longevity, and this isn't even considering a possible, if not probable, coolant leak within the electric motor's casing over time. This all sounds very expensive and backwards from a thermodynamic standpoint. If we want to avoid turbo lag and want more engine sound, what's wrong with traditional supercharging? Even electric supercharging would be an improvement over this concept.



It's possible Stellatis might do a spinoff of qv as a "brand" of it's own so to speak. Similar to what happened with Abarth, and the DS line of citroen. In the future, Alfa Romeo might just be a generic brand with "Quattrofolio" being a different company.



You're dreaming.



You're still dreaming.



Somewhat realistic. They managed to fit a nettuno in a Giulia for some testing about a month ago.



I'm actually really grateful that so many elements are shared between the regular Giulia vs qv. I think the qv deserves to get exclusive carbon seats, roof and a couple colors considering that it's a very special car.



If they plan on producing 400 horsepower from a 2 liter engine, my prayers go out to all the metals involved in the process.



Are you talking about the pentastar? I rented a dodge caravan once and I absolutely loved the sound of that engine. Great torque too. I was also getting something like low 20's mpg. Couldn't believe it.



Yea, manufacturing batteries isn't all that nice for the environment. At least initially. Once enough batteries and battery pollution is produced we'll probably see these batteries get recycled at the end of their lifespan in older EVs. I'm sure manufactures would want to set up an incentive for buyers to turn in their old EVs for a new one so that the company gets to remanufacture the pack. Lowering the cost of manufacturing and benefitting from having the buyer purchase a new vehicle as a result. Similar to how some car companies under the soviet union would have vehicle rebuild or "update" programs. Taking the old car, rebuilding it, and then putting it back on the market.
I was under the impression that the QV engines were built in an Alfa factory in Termoli. I understand that the entire QV concept was hatched by Sergio and he chose Krief (Ferrari's Tech Director) to oversee the project, but the engine is an Alfa engine, developed by Ferrari engineers, based on the F154. Or is this not correct?
 

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I was under the impression that the QV engines were built in an Alfa factory in Termoli. I understand that the entire QV concept was hatched by Sergio and he chose Krief (Ferrari's Tech Director) to oversee the project, but the engine is an Alfa engine, developed by Ferrari engineers, based on the F154. Or is this not correct?
The 4 Cylinder engines are built in Termoli. I don't know where the 690T is made for sure, but Ferrari has a lot of capacity to build engines, I wouldn't be surprised if they were being manufactured in Modena and shipped to Alfa.

Edit: I may be wrong as I see some older articles referring to Alfa building it at Termoli as well, but the ones I am finding are from like 2014..
 

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Yes, apparently the mini SUV (Brennero?) is to be made in Poland on the same line as the FIAT an JEEP version of the same car. I understand this was an FCA decision made prior to the formal creation of Stellantis.
Makes sense i suppose, considering they most likely share the same platform, and there probably isn't a factory in Italy which produces anything on the platform.

I'm curious, does anyone know where the Mito and Giulettas were being made?
 

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At this point, I just want Mazda to put their 2.5L turbo in-line 4 into the Miata. I'd sell my 2016 6MT MX-5 Club model and buy one in a heartbeat.
 

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Here is the latest. Maybe not as dire as it seems. Time will tell.

Alfa Romeo's New CEO Has A Message For America

 

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Here is the latest. Maybe not as dire as it seems. Time will tell.

Alfa Romeo's New CEO Has A Message For America

I am still skeptical of them being stuck with the STLA platform. Will have to keep an open mind, but glad to hear they have passionate people in management. In my short experience as an Alfa owner, passion is truly what has separated this car, and the community, from other vehicles in the segment.
 

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I am still skeptical of them being stuck with the STLA platform. Will have to keep an open mind, but glad to hear they have passionate people in management. In my short experience as an Alfa owner, passion is truly what has separated this car, and the community, from other vehicles in the segment.
It’s certainly not unreasonable to be skeptical given history of the brand but there seems to me at least to be some room for optimism.

STLA appears not to be Peugeot platform but some thing new

Alfa, amongst the Stellantis Group, are unique in building rear platformed cars which any new Stellantis mid or large sized EV will be. So you would hope that Alfa have input into STLA. With luck it might even be Alfa biased because that is what will be needed to complete in the premium priced segments.

Maserati aside none of the other European Stellantis brands (save for a few DS saloons in France) have the ability to carry a price premium or be anything much more than econo boxes. A mid sized Alfa can carry that premium in a way that an Opel Insignia or a Peugeot 508 can’t.

Alfa is a brand with global appeal/recognition – that is not the case for Peugeot or Opel and while the Citroen brand has its many admirers it has been many years since anyone has seen a great Citroen. The same goes for Lancia. DS isn’t really a brand as such…outside of France. Yet. I would actually say that the only three global brands in the Stellantis stable are JEEP (without doubt a global brand), Maserati (but very, very niche) and Alfa. The others are really market centric - US (Dodge etc) or Europe (Fiat).

Management seems intent on keeping Alfa largely Italian. If that is the case we might find out whether it is possible for an electric car to have character or for it to just be an appliance!

Imparato has a reputation for turning things around

They have committed in favour of Alfa in the NA market – for volume sake a market it needs to succeed

I'm not sure why such a big deal was made of Alfa retiring Giorgio at some point in the future because it will be the same for all brands - VW will retire MQB, BMW CLAR, Mercedes MRA at pretty much the same time as Giorgio is likely retired. None of these are full BEV platforms and in that case all will go you would imagine around 2030 or so.

Aside from my underlying uncertainty about EV's in general (perhaps I need to drive a Taycan) I would say there remains some potential for Alfa's still to be Alfa's under Stellantis but we probably won't know for a couple of years.
 

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This is a common fallacy when solar and wind power is being criticized. Do not confuse a solar-powered grid with off-the-grid solar. There is no need to charge your hypothetical Tesla directly from your panels in real time. You put power into the grid along with thousands of other customers, and withdraw it at whatever rate you need to charge your Tesla in an hour.
The thing about the solar concept is that it's more of a romantic decision than a rational one. Solar isn't space efficient and lithium chemistry isn't cheap. There's no battery that's here and now that's capable of cheaply and efficiently storing large amounts of power in compact form. Most of these facilities would have to be publicly funded as it's hard to sell the return on investment of solar to the private investor (unless you had a stake in the battery industry, of course). I'm sure you're well aware of all the investments that have been made into lithium mining over the years. The people who have made such investments had money burning a hole in their pocket, and had to place a bet on something. They bet the farm on lithium and now want to force this as a long term strategy. Saying this is reckless and shortsighted on their part is an understatement.

And the oil companies are a bunch of hypocrites too. Doing every thing they can to suppress alternative fuels, until they see such substantial investments in lithium and realize that this time they can't just lobby or buy out the competition. They can't fight people who are a just as rich if not richer than they are so they change their tune and join forces with these "battery companies" ensuring a "bright wonderful future" for everyone.

Going back to your point though, I think a good compromise would be home production of hydrogen. You could have a small array at home or on your roof, an electrolyser in your garage, and maybe a small underground tank to store hydrogen made from tap water. If the system was tightly sealed enough then it could be safe. Maybe we should be investing more in gasket technology than battery technology?

Miata is already repackaged as a Fiat, so why not repackage it as an Alfa, make it pretty with the Alfa nose and stuff, drop in the Giulia's 2.0 and a stick or the ZF and bam!
Italian companies can be a little... Choosy about who they work with and their image. It doesn't surprise me that ar didn't want to associate with Mazda for that roadster project. I haven't done work for ar directly, but my guess is that it may have been a little bit of ego, and a little bit of brand image which is why they never got involved with that chassis. Profit margin and the risk of diluting sales could have been an issue as well. I could imagine a compact alfa coupe on that chassis that could have had a much broader appeal and sales potential, though.

Yes, but Sergio is gone and this brand is close to extinction loosely speaking.
It won't be gone the same way versace and armani won't be gone. Or barilla pasta. Or lancia (not the pasta). There are plenty of companies that shouldn't exist in italy simply because they're not profitable but still do because... They're icons.

I think I read somewhere recently, that they will be making new models in Poland.

I'd prefer if Alfas were only manufactured in Italy, of course.
Alfas should be made in italy, yes. Maybe fiat can get away with polish manufacturing.. But not alfa.

I was under the impression that the QV engines were built in an Alfa factory in Termoli. I understand that the entire QV concept was hatched by Sergio and he chose Krief (Ferrari's Tech Director) to oversee the project, but the engine is an Alfa engine, developed by Ferrari engineers, based on the F154. Or is this not correct?
I used to do work in Italy. The professional approach to automotive design is very different compared to US or Asian or even other european brands. In italy, it's common for one brand to have a couple of employees consult with members from another brand (italian). They try to keep this to a minimum for legal reasons, but often times it happens as a "favor" from one project manager or employee to another. I don't want to get too specific, but it's not uncommon for say, an italian scooter or motorcycle company to work along side with some people from an italian exotic car manufacture, or even an italian tractor manufacturer getting opinions on prototypes. It's kind of funny, since many italian manufacturers/industrial companies have some of the best security (for intellectual property) that would put even alcatraz to shame, yet people who are working within the industry are usually pretty open and friendly with each other. Usually.

I would bet the modifications of this existing engine were requested by ar and later executed by people from Ferrari.

Makes sense i suppose, considering they most likely share the same platform, and there probably isn't a factory in Italy which produces anything on the platform.

I'm curious, does anyone know where the Mito and Giulettas were being made?
Mito was made in Torino. Giuletta was made at the Cassino plant.

It’s certainly not unreasonable to be skeptical given history of the brand but there seems to me at least to be some room for optimism.

STLA appears not to be Peugeot platform but some thing new

Alfa, amongst the Stellantis Group, are unique in building rear platformed cars which any new Stellantis mid or large sized EV will be. So you would hope that Alfa have input into STLA. With luck it might even be Alfa biased because that is what will be needed to complete in the premium priced segments.

Maserati aside none of the other European Stellantis brands (save for a few DS saloons in France) have the ability to carry a price premium or be anything much more than econo boxes. A mid sized Alfa can carry that premium in a way that an Opel Insignia or a Peugeot 508 can’t.

Alfa is a brand with global appeal/recognition – that is not the case for Peugeot or Opel and while the Citroen brand has its many admirers it has been many years since anyone has seen a great Citroen. The same goes for Lancia. DS isn’t really a brand as such…outside of France. Yet. I would actually say that the only three global brands in the Stellantis stable are JEEP (without doubt a global brand), Maserati (but very, very niche) and Alfa. The others are really market centric - US (Dodge etc) or Europe (Fiat).

Management seems intent on keeping Alfa largely Italian. If that is the case we might find out whether it is possible for an electric car to have character or for it to just be an appliance!

Imparato has a reputation for turning things around

They have committed in favour of Alfa in the NA market – for volume sake a market it needs to succeed

I'm not sure why such a big deal was made of Alfa retiring Giorgio at some point in the future because it will be the same for all brands - VW will retire MQB, BMW CLAR, Mercedes MRA at pretty much the same time as Giorgio is likely retired. None of these are full BEV platforms and in that case all will go you would imagine around 2030 or so.

Aside from my underlying uncertainty about EV's in general (perhaps I need to drive a Taycan) I would say there remains some potential for Alfa's still to be Alfa's under Stellantis but we probably won't know for a couple of years.
Alfa Romeo is very much a niche company in the states. People don't know where to place it. One guy thought it was a german brand, another thought it was a luxury car company from Mexico. I can't speak for other markets outside of the us or eu, but ar is definitely an outsider here.

You touched a bit on product lifecycle management and "input from alfa". I wish things worked the way you mentioned, but the reality is that there are people in suits (stellantis executives, banks) who do a good job at pretending to like cars who then get other people in suits (lower level stellantis people) to present a prompt to the manufacture (alfa romeo) to develop a product within specific parameters. The design leads have to do a balancing act between respecting the designer's intent versus the suit's intent. If the design lead has to choose between the suit or the designer, it's the designer who gets thrown under the bus. Platforms do get retired, yes, but usually for the "right" reasons. Material technology advances, manufacturing technology advances, platforms become lighter, more adaptable, cheaper to produce. The suits could have listed any of those things being the ultimate reason for the drop, but instead they chose to go with the "cool aid" and because "everyone else is doing it" angle. Very bad. And what's to say EVs are a guaranteed success anyway? Stellantis going all in on platforms for every segment that can accommodate full electrification is smart business? If the EV movement turns out to a be a big flop I guess you could use all that extra space under the seats as a second trunk like how a coach bus handles luggage.

I can't imagine what's going on in the studios right now. Gotta be some hold overs from the sergio days who are probably just a little ticked off. Just a little.
 

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The thing about the solar concept is that it's more of a romantic decision than a rational one. Solar isn't space efficient and lithium chemistry isn't cheap. There's no battery that's here and now that's capable of cheaply and efficiently storing large amounts of power in compact form. Most of these facilities would have to be publicly funded as it's hard to sell the return on investment of solar to the private investor (unless you had a stake in the battery industry, of course). I'm sure you're well aware of all the investments that have been made into lithium mining over the years. The people who have made such investments had money burning a hole in their pocket, and had to place a bet on something. They bet the farm on lithium and now want to force this as a long term strategy. Saying this is reckless and shortsighted on their part is an understatement.

And the oil companies are a bunch of hypocrites too. Doing every thing they can to suppress alternative fuels, until they see such substantial investments in lithium and realize that this time they can't just lobby or buy out the competition. They can't fight people who are a just as rich if not richer than they are so they change their tune and join forces with these "battery companies" ensuring a "bright wonderful future" for everyone.

Going back to your point though, I think a good compromise would be home production of hydrogen. You could have a small array at home or on your roof, an electrolyser in your garage, and maybe a small underground tank to store hydrogen made from tap water. If the system was tightly sealed enough then it could be safe. Maybe we should be investing more in gasket technology than battery technology?



Italian companies can be a little... Choosy about who they work with and their image. It doesn't surprise me that ar didn't want to associate with Mazda for that roadster project. I haven't done work for ar directly, but my guess is that it may have been a little bit of ego, and a little bit of brand image which is why they never got involved with that chassis. Profit margin and the risk of diluting sales could have been an issue as well. I could imagine a compact alfa coupe on that chassis that could have had a much broader appeal and sales potential, though.



It won't be gone the same way versace and armani won't be gone. Or barilla pasta. Or lancia (not the pasta). There are plenty of companies that shouldn't exist in italy simply because they're not profitable but still do because... They're icons.



Alfas should be made in italy, yes. Maybe fiat can get away with polish manufacturing.. But not alfa.



I used to do work in Italy. The professional approach to automotive design is very different compared to US or Asian or even other european brands. In italy, it's common for one brand to have a couple of employees consult with members from another brand (italian). They try to keep this to a minimum for legal reasons, but often times it happens as a "favor" from one project manager or employee to another. I don't want to get too specific, but it's not uncommon for say, an italian scooter or motorcycle company to work along side with some people from an italian exotic car manufacture, or even an italian tractor manufacturer getting opinions on prototypes. It's kind of funny, since many italian manufacturers/industrial companies have some of the best security (for intellectual property) that would put even alcatraz to shame, yet people who are working within the industry are usually pretty open and friendly with each other. Usually.

I would bet the modifications of this existing engine were requested by ar and later executed by people from Ferrari.



Mito was made in Torino. Giuletta was made at the Cassino plant.



Alfa Romeo is very much a niche company in the states. People don't know where to place it. One guy thought it was a german brand, another thought it was a luxury car company from Mexico. I can't speak for other markets outside of the us or eu, but ar is definitely an outsider here.

You touched a bit on product lifecycle management and "input from alfa". I wish things worked the way you mentioned, but the reality is that there are people in suits (stellantis executives, banks) who do a good job at pretending to like cars who then get other people in suits (lower level stellantis people) to present a prompt to the manufacture (alfa romeo) to develop a product within specific parameters. The design leads have to do a balancing act between respecting the designer's intent versus the suit's intent. If the design lead has to choose between the suit or the designer, it's the designer who gets thrown under the bus. Platforms do get retired, yes, but usually for the "right" reasons. Material technology advances, manufacturing technology advances, platforms become lighter, more adaptable, cheaper to produce. The suits could have listed any of those things being the ultimate reason for the drop, but instead they chose to go with the "cool aid" and because "everyone else is doing it" angle. Very bad. And what's to say EVs are a guaranteed success anyway? Stellantis going all in on platforms for every segment that can accommodate full electrification is smart business? If the EV movement turns out to a be a big flop I guess you could use all that extra space under the seats as a second trunk like how a coach bus handles luggage.

I can't imagine what's going on in the studios right now. Gotta be some hold overs from the sergio days who are probably just a little ticked off. Just a little.
Welcome A47! Appreciate you sharing your wisdom. Love that we have serious experts on this forum. Now if we wanted to manipulate Stellants into making a wagon and coupe on the giorgio platform, or even just a super lightweight Q4 Giulia, how might we do it...perhaps have an actual car designer put together a design for a start hmm?
 

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Good note.

I adore Alfa, have since childhood and I've been a huge fan of the Guilia and the only car in my long line of leases that I miss. I absolutely wish to come back into the fold with a 'buy' instead of 'lease' next year. However, my 2 cents (maybe I'm more right of center than I want to be), (a) Rome also fell (b) You only get so many lives (c) Profits or gtfo (d) passionate ones die first

 

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The thing about the solar concept is that it's more of a romantic decision than a rational one. Solar isn't space efficient and lithium chemistry isn't cheap. There's no battery that's here and now that's capable of cheaply and efficiently storing large amounts of power in compact form. Most of these facilities would have to be publicly funded as it's hard to sell the return on investment of solar to the private investor (unless you had a stake in the battery industry, of course). I'm sure you're well aware of all the investments that have been made into lithium mining over the years. The people who have made such investments had money burning a hole in their pocket, and had to place a bet on something. They bet the farm on lithium and now want to force this as a long term strategy. Saying this is reckless and shortsighted on their part is an understatement.

And the oil companies are a bunch of hypocrites too. Doing every thing they can to suppress alternative fuels, until they see such substantial investments in lithium and realize that this time they can't just lobby or buy out the competition. They can't fight people who are a just as rich if not richer than they are so they change their tune and join forces with these "battery companies" ensuring a "bright wonderful future" for everyone.

Going back to your point though, I think a good compromise would be home production of hydrogen. You could have a small array at home or on your roof, an electrolyser in your garage, and maybe a small underground tank to store hydrogen made from tap water. If the system was tightly sealed enough then it could be safe. Maybe we should be investing more in gasket technology than battery technology?



Italian companies can be a little... Choosy about who they work with and their image. It doesn't surprise me that ar didn't want to associate with Mazda for that roadster project. I haven't done work for ar directly, but my guess is that it may have been a little bit of ego, and a little bit of brand image which is why they never got involved with that chassis. Profit margin and the risk of diluting sales could have been an issue as well. I could imagine a compact alfa coupe on that chassis that could have had a much broader appeal and sales potential, though.



It won't be gone the same way versace and armani won't be gone. Or barilla pasta. Or lancia (not the pasta). There are plenty of companies that shouldn't exist in italy simply because they're not profitable but still do because... They're icons.



Alfas should be made in italy, yes. Maybe fiat can get away with polish manufacturing.. But not alfa.



I used to do work in Italy. The professional approach to automotive design is very different compared to US or Asian or even other european brands. In italy, it's common for one brand to have a couple of employees consult with members from another brand (italian). They try to keep this to a minimum for legal reasons, but often times it happens as a "favor" from one project manager or employee to another. I don't want to get too specific, but it's not uncommon for say, an italian scooter or motorcycle company to work along side with some people from an italian exotic car manufacture, or even an italian tractor manufacturer getting opinions on prototypes. It's kind of funny, since many italian manufacturers/industrial companies have some of the best security (for intellectual property) that would put even alcatraz to shame, yet people who are working within the industry are usually pretty open and friendly with each other. Usually.

I would bet the modifications of this existing engine were requested by ar and later executed by people from Ferrari.



Mito was made in Torino. Giuletta was made at the Cassino plant.



Alfa Romeo is very much a niche company in the states. People don't know where to place it. One guy thought it was a german brand, another thought it was a luxury car company from Mexico. I can't speak for other markets outside of the us or eu, but ar is definitely an outsider here.

You touched a bit on product lifecycle management and "input from alfa". I wish things worked the way you mentioned, but the reality is that there are people in suits (stellantis executives, banks) who do a good job at pretending to like cars who then get other people in suits (lower level stellantis people) to present a prompt to the manufacture (alfa romeo) to develop a product within specific parameters. The design leads have to do a balancing act between respecting the designer's intent versus the suit's intent. If the design lead has to choose between the suit or the designer, it's the designer who gets thrown under the bus. Platforms do get retired, yes, but usually for the "right" reasons. Material technology advances, manufacturing technology advances, platforms become lighter, more adaptable, cheaper to produce. The suits could have listed any of those things being the ultimate reason for the drop, but instead they chose to go with the "cool aid" and because "everyone else is doing it" angle. Very bad. And what's to say EVs are a guaranteed success anyway? Stellantis going all in on platforms for every segment that can accommodate full electrification is smart business? If the EV movement turns out to a be a big flop I guess you could use all that extra space under the seats as a second trunk like how a coach bus handles luggage.

I can't imagine what's going on in the studios right now. Gotta be some hold overs from the sergio days who are probably just a little ticked off. Just a little.
No disagreement with the substance of what you are saying. Alfa is a niche player here in Australia too. It is probably a niche player in all markets except perhaps Italy. But well thought out product plans and good execution of those plans can produce products that work well as profitable niche players. Not about being the biggest that is the Toyota/VW game plan but profitable.

To that end, while the high end suits will do as you say they are also likley recognise that Alfa has some value. The challenge is to realise that value and to to that within the Stellantis portfolio of products. For what its worth, while maintaining some skeptism about the future, I'm of the view that there is sufficient potential within the brand to have it continue into the future in a way that represents those brand values as a mid-premuim, sporting character, design/style led option.

Time will tell.
 
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