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On October 6th 2017 we placed our 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio on our newly installed and calibrated RACE DYNO. The Dyno was installed earlier in the week consisting of technicians from both the North American and Italian Dimsport offices. This Dyno consists of Hydraulically linked Rollers that can simulate controlled real world conditions and enables the car to behave as it would on the street. More information regarding the Dyno will be available in a second Blog Post. The Dyno results of 371WTQ and 453WHP are consistent with Alfa Romeo claims of 505hp and 443tq of power delivered at a crank. We saw no check engine lights and the car remained happy even after 6 runs.

VIDEO:


This is a massive and important development and confirms our thoughts and theories in regards to proper dyno methodology in regards to the newer Fiat and Alfa Romeo vehicles, including but not limited to the Alfa Romeo 4C, Fiat 500 Abarth, Fiat 124 Abarth/Spider ect. With the use of a Hydraulically linked set of rollers the wheel speed sensors are kept ata satisfied ratio in regards to wheel rotational speed. Belt driven systems which are prevalent here in the states cannot maintain a constant wheel rotational speed. We will get into more of the technicalities soon but for now this is a massive test in theory development. We saw no check engine lights and the car remained happy even after 6 runs.

Why is all of this important??? First and foremost it confirms the power output of the car which was slammed by certain online publications when our very own placed the car on a dyno. A disservice was done to the reputation of the car to a degree and as with all negative press word spread quickly. Kudos @kanundrum for taking the time to place one of the first cars on the dyno, this however confirmed what we theorized would happen. So it was good in that respect. (http://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/4...fa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-dyno-tested.html) (This is also no way a negative towards Kanundrum as we are big fans of what he has done with the car and we are fans of his AutoAvanti channel)

During testing we saw torque numbers in the mid to upper 390's and peak power numbers sat around 450-460. We posted the median peak hp run to remain on the conservative side. The car was affected also by a bit of heat which will affect numbers by 5-10% on the high side. We have industrial fans coming from overseas so that will correct that issue in the future.

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https://shopeurocompulsion.net/blogs/news/successful-north-american-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-dyno
 

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Why is all of this important??? First and foremost it confirms the power output of the car which was slammed by certain online publications when our very own placed the car on a dyno. A disservice was done to the reputation of the car to a degree and as with all negative press word spread quickly. Kudos @kanundrum for taking the time to place one of the first cars on the dyno, this however confirmed what we theorized would happen. So it was good in that respect. (http://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/4...fa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-dyno-tested.html) (This is also no way a negative towards Kanundrum as we are big fans of what he has done with the car and we are fans of his AutoAvanti channel)
None taken! Mustang dyno reads super low and were consistent with GTR figures. I wonder what your folks dyno reads with other cars in comparison! Gotta find one of those bad boys around the area. Have you folks heard of that WiTech software that enables a dyno mode of the car? Any truth to that?

Thanks
 

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None taken! Mustang dyno reads super low and were consistent with GTR figures. I wonder what your folks dyno reads with other cars in comparison! Gotta find one of those bad boys around the area. Have you folks heard of that WiTech software that enables a dyno mode of the car? Any truth to that?

Thanks
This type of Dyno does not require witech and we cannot confirm that there is any truth to that. We do know the source of that information but witech is not required with the proper dyno. That source also stated that late 2017 models could not be calibrated/tuned which was also not accurate.

We had technicians in from Italy calibrating it over the week and we placed a series of cars (FWD/RWD/AWD) on the dyno to confirm estimated power outputs as compared to manufacturers stated values, scary how accurate they were. So far this is the only dyno of its kind in the states but there will be more. There are well over 140+ in Europe installed at this time, and a handful in japan.
 

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'17 Ti Sport Q4 w/ Active Shocks & LSD
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2.0T Next?! Big Kudos EC!!!

Very exciting car science -- Thank you for getting the rollers rolling here in NA.

Yes indeed let's see the data.

What is your schedule for moving onto your Ti Q4, and next steps in your ECU tune project? You relayed to me the Dyno would be instrumental in your next phase of development.

Bravo and thanks,
 

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2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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On October 6th 2017 we placed our 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio on our newly installed and calibrated RACE DYNO. The Dyno was installed earlier in the week consisting of technicians from both the North American and Italian Dimsport offices. This Dyno consists of Hydraulically linked Rollers that can simulate controlled real world conditions and enables the car to behave as it would on the street. More information regarding the Dyno will be available in a second Blog Post. The Dyno results of 371WTQ and 453WHP are consistent with Alfa Romeo claims of 505hp and 443tq of power delivered at a crank. We saw no check engine lights and the car remained happy even after 6 runs.
So you are expecting that driveline losses in Giulia are around 10% rather than the 20-25% that other people have posted that they expect?

What gear is the car in during the test? Do you know if the torque converter was locked?
 

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Very impressive guys. It's great to see the commitment Eurocompulsion is putting forth. I can't wait for more Giulia upgrades from you guys.
 

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Thanks for the update and great news that this setup works. You must be releved that your theory and expensive bet about being able to dyno test Giulia's was right. Look forward to the product development that this enables for you.
 

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Good morning everyone. I'll try and answer all the posted questions here in this response.

First of all, we just got this dyno installed and we are still in the early stages of learning to use it. The techs from Dimsport taught us well, but this thing is incredibly capable and complex. Also, as Chris pointed out, we don't have the industrial fans installed yet, so airflow at the front the the car is really insufficient, hence all our numbers will likely be revised after we get the fans installed.

The most important factor is that the Giulia Q has no idea it's on THIS dyno. It doesn't pull back power, throw a code, turn on a light or anything. As the video shows, it even deploys and retracts the front spoiler as if it's on the road. Furthermore, it generates numbers that make sense considering the published flywheel horsepower.

kanundrum: Numbers are at the wheels and corrected automatically for the current atmospheric conditions including pressure temperature and humidity. The dyno does this automatically, it has a little built in weather station, it gathers most of the data and applies the corrections. On the day of this test density altitude was a little higher than standard but not off too much, so those corrected numbers are probably only a little higher than uncorrected. I am sure we could display raw numbers, but I haven't messed with that yet, and they would probably only cause confusion at this point anyway.

We have heard of the witech software, and heard that it's required on this car, even with this dyno. The source of that information is one of our competitors who I consider highly unreliable. That person puts out misinformation all the time, I don't know if it's due to incompetence or intent. This dyno does not require any software trickery to make the car act normal, we literally just drive it on and go.

As for dynoing other cars, we dynoed a rented Ford Explorer V6 and the numbers were comparable to what we would see on a Mustang dyno. I am sure as time goes on we will have a good selection of cars to look at, but our focus is obviously Fiat, Alfas, and other Italian stuff. We could dyno the more common cars on most any dyno.

mtb, we will be putting up more data soon. The overall point of this thread is to show that it does work and put out correct power. More data is coming, but the key points are visible in this video.

lockem: I think the driveline losses are 10-15%. I don't think any modern Italian car loses 20-25%, and if they do, some engineer would need to be fired.

I have to go, we literally have a car on the dyno right now. I'll follow this up later today.

Greg
 

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kanundrum: Numbers are at the wheels and corrected automatically for the current atmospheric conditions including pressure temperature and humidity. The dyno does this automatically, it has a little built in weather station, it gathers most of the data and applies the corrections. On the day of this test density altitude was a little higher than standard but not off too much, so those corrected numbers are probably only a little higher than uncorrected. I am sure we could display raw numbers, but I haven't messed with that yet, and they would probably only cause confusion at this point anyway.

We have heard of the witech software, and heard that it's required on this car, even with this dyno. The source of that information is one of our competitors who I consider highly unreliable. That person puts out misinformation all the time, I don't know if it's due to incompetence or intent. This dyno does not require any software trickery to make the car act normal, we literally just drive it on and go.

As for dynoing other cars, we dynoed a rented Ford Explorer V6 and the numbers were comparable to what we would see on a Mustang dyno. I am sure as time goes on we will have a good selection of cars to look at, but our focus is obviously Fiat, Alfas, and other Italian stuff. We could dyno the more common cars on most any dyno.
Thanks for the Reply! Would love to see uncorrected numbers when ever you folks do figure it out (if possible) sounds like a super awesome dyno if it has a weather station haha. Interesting to see comparison as well! I had the QV on 2 mustang dynos (Mustang Dyno MD-AWD-500-SE Dynamometer) and while the 1st one didn't throw codes the dyno operator was reluctant to put power 100% down. The 2nd dyno (one from my video) thru codes on the rev down (maybe braking too hard) and no where on the rev/pull up and both numbers were the same give or take around the 390s 400's mark.
Again I don't consider either successful mainly due to these issues but both were 100% uncorrected so would be interested to see the results thats all!

Big kudos for you folks taking the leap forward and investing in such a unit. Does this also mean tuning is not a ECU swap and can be flashed as well now?
 

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Thanks for the Reply! Would love to see uncorrected numbers when ever you folks do figure it out (if possible)
Our shop elevation is about 600' above sea level and about 75F the day of this test, so corrected numbers are only going to be slightly lower, you can check my math, but that works out to around 2 percent. I am not a big fan of uncorrected numbers because they are by definition, incorrect and only cause confusion. I see this a lot, a tuner will dyno on a high pressure cold day and publish uncorrected numbers because they are unrealistically high.


Big kudos for you folks taking the leap forward and investing in such a unit. Does this also mean tuning is not a ECU swap and can be flashed as well now?
Thanks! Regarding flash tuning, no it doesn't mean that, unfortunately those two things are not really related.

Greg
 

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Awesome stuff Greg! And thanks for the info about the computers and spoiler. That tells us a lot about what is hard coded on these cars. And super glad she was fine with no codes or hold back at all.
 
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Our shop elevation is about 600' above sea level and about 75F the day of this test, so corrected numbers are only going to be slightly lower, you can check my math, but that works out to around 2 percent. I am not a big fan of uncorrected numbers because they are by definition, incorrect and only cause confusion. I see this a lot, a tuner will dyno on a high pressure cold day and publish uncorrected numbers because they are unrealistically high.

Greg
Greg,

I am a bit confused by correcting for altitude, since there was discussion that the Giulia ECU also corrects for altitude, in the form of maintaining boost pressure at the same absolute reading up to some limit. I think this means that if you correct for 600' of elevation and/or temporary low air pressure the corrected power will be unrealistically high.

At high altitude I expect more turbo lag and worse intercooler performance, but close to the same dyno performance.

Let me know when you want to bring your Dyno up to my place at 7500' elevation to try this out :grin2:
 

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Greg,

I am a bit confused by correcting for altitude, since there was discussion that the Giulia ECU also corrects for altitude, in the form of maintaining boost pressure at the same absolute reading up to some limit. I think this means that if you correct for 600' of elevation and/or temporary low air pressure the corrected power will be unrealistically high.

At high altitude I expect more turbo lag and worse intercooler performance, but close to the same dyno performance.

Let me know when you want to bring your Dyno up to my place at 7500' elevation to try this out :grin2:
The ECU will take into account altitude so that it can inject the correct amount of fuel to achieve proper combustion. The dynamometer will take altitude into account so that the result can be normalized back to a standard altitude. That way you can compare the results (apples to apples) between multiple tests conducted at different altitudes.
 
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