Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
41 - 60 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Yes. I agree totally with you. I always drive within the limits in populated areas.I allow my self just 20 above limits , sometimes, in non populated areas, which are the most roads here.If they catch me, I pay my tickets. ;) I was talking about our limit on the highway- autobahn, although it is not autobahn at all and the asphalt is not so good usually, but the limit is 140km/h and the coppers will not stop or photo you if you drive with 150km/h. I don't think driving with that speed is dangerous, unless you car is not up to this or your skills. The perception of speed, reactions and movement is not the same among the drivers. Just driving the vehicle does not make you good driver. This comes with training and experience.Most driving schools, never train you for extreme situations or higher speed reactions. I think , this is essential for car safety.
If I was going to drive, all the time with no more than 90km/h , why the hell did I get this car, exactly ??? Do you have answer to this ?
Why don't we get just the Prius, or even better , traveling with the bus or train......?
Some more notes about speed limits:

In California some highways are 90kph because driveways that branch off of the road are constructed for merging with traffic at a maximum of 90kph. This might not be obvious to the person speeding through the area.

Traffic lights are timed based on vehicles being operated at or below the speed limit.

Smog producing and CO2 emissions increase with speeds above 90kph. This can be an issue in certain smog prone areas and explains why California roads that are adequate for 112kph often have 105kph limits.

Higher vehicle speeds put more strain on the pavement and road bed. Roads that were constructed 100 years ago often cannot cope with higher speed traffic and tearing up the road to re-enforce the roadbed (usually a thick layer of gravel underneath the pavement) is typically not practical. In fact I would not be surprised if the stated poor condition of Bulgarian roads is a consequence of the 140kph speed limit.

Large vehicles have problems with high speeds, and mixing low speed large vehicles with higher speed traffic creates hazards for all. At least in the USA, the highest speed rating available for commercial truck tires is 75MPH (120kph). Many truck actually have 65 or 70MPH speed rated tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Some more notes about speed limits:

In California some highways are 90kph because driveways that branch off of the road are constructed for merging with traffic at a maximum of 90kph. This might not be obvious to the person speeding through the area.

Traffic lights are timed based on vehicles being operated at or below the speed limit.

Smog producing and CO2 emissions increase with speeds above 90kph. This can be an issue in certain smog prone areas and explains why California roads that are adequate for 112kph often have 105kph limits.

Higher vehicle speeds put more strain on the pavement and road bed. Roads that were constructed 100 years ago often cannot cope with higher speed traffic and tearing up the road to re-enforce the roadbed (usually a thick layer of gravel underneath the pavement) is typically not practical. In fact I would not be surprised if the stated poor condition of Bulgarian roads is a consequence of the 140kph speed limit.

Large vehicles have problems with high speeds, and mixing low speed large vehicles with higher speed traffic creates hazards for all. At least in the USA, the highest speed rating available for commercial truck tires is 75MPH (120kph). Many truck actually have 65 or 70MPH speed rated tires.
Nice to know this. Thanks.
No man, the poor roads condition is not from the 140km/h limit. And this is only on Highways. Most roads are not Highway.I can assure for this. The reasons are complex, but mostly - not good enough and in time repairs and maintenance. Also, we have a lot of heavy truck traffic, from Asia to Europe and very big year temperature amplitudes . Winter , it can be - 20 degrees Celsius and summer + 40 degrees Celsius. Corruption in government road maintenance is also big factor here.......you know, the Balkans story. :)
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
6,927 Posts
@lockem , has CA adopted the metric system?
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Nice to know this. Thanks.
No man, the poor roads condition is not from the 140km/h limit. And this is only on Highways. Most roads are not Highway.I can assure for this. The reasons are complex, but mostly - not good enough and in time repairs and maintenance. Also, we have a lot of heavy truck traffic, from Asia to Europe and very big year temperature amplitudes . Winter , it can be - 20 degrees Celsius and summer + 40 degrees Celsius. Corruption in government road maintenance is also big factor here.......you know, the Balkans story. :)
Do you know this or is it just one of those things that gets said so you can feel good about driving at such high speeds?

@lockem , has CA adopted the metric system?
No, I am being polite. 90-95% of the world is metric, why aren't we?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Do you know this or is it just one of those things that gets said so you can feel good about driving at such high speeds?



No, I am being polite. 90-95% of the world is metric, why aren't we?
Of course I know that.I wouldn't say it otherwise.
What high speeds man ??? I have told you already , this is the official limit here . I am very happy it is. I will write for last time that if the speed is the killer , guns are also, not the people. When I decide to ride bicycle instead of Alfa Romeo car, I may consider moving to California, with your speed limits :)
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Of course I know that.I wouldn't say it otherwise.
What high speeds man ??? I have told you already , this is the official limit here . I am very happy it is. I will write for last time that if the speed is the killer , guns are also, not the people. When I decide to ride bicycle instead of Alfa Romeo car, I may consider moving to California, with your speed limits :)
If you can get your bicycle going 112kph (2.5 times the speed that a pro can maintain) you should be a professional bicycle racer.

140kph IS HIGH SPEED. On public roads with other drivers and cars taken at random from the public this is too fast and will kill people. Improving the road will not fix such an issue. If you want to be elitist and only allow young, well trained drivers who have better performance, well maintained cars onto the road, it can be rendered reasonably safe, but those conditions cannot be met on any public highway any where.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
If you can get your bicycle going 112kph (2.5 times the speed that a pro can maintain) you should be a professional bicycle racer.

140kph IS HIGH SPEED. On public roads with other drivers and cars taken at random from the public this is too fast and will kill people. Improving the road will not fix such an issue. If you want to be elitist and only allow young, well trained drivers who have better performance, well maintained cars onto the road, it can be rendered reasonably safe, but those conditions cannot be met on any public highway any where.
Well, in Germany there is even no limit on the autobahns. You can drive with 200km/h. At least, these are well made and engineered.
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Well, in Germany there is even no limit on the autobahns. You can drive with 200km/h. At least, these are well made and engineered.
A system that has its origins and continued existence in the elitists of Germany. The death rate on the autobahn is pretty high compared to the highways of other countries; I was told that there are ambulances at the ready spaced along the autobahn in an attempt to mitigate the carnage.

I believe that the pavement on the autobahn is well maintained, but that is a mix of spending a lot of money on the road foundation and on the constant repairs that often prevent drivers from being able to achieve high speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
If you can get your bicycle going 112kph (2.5 times the speed that a pro can maintain) you should be a professional bicycle racer.
Not the same thing, but in my home town there were folks with modified mopeds that would reach 140kmh.

140kph IS HIGH SPEED. On public roads with other drivers and cars taken at random from the public this is too fast and will kill people.
It's too fast for turns but not for highway straightaways.
@Anunnaki Give up; you will never convince an American that it is possible to go fast safely. Which is interesting since it's the land of muscle cars and 1/4 mile. I suspect the straight roads and automated transmission made people inept at driving.

Growing up in Italy, I can attest that drivers there go much faster and are way more aggressive in all conditions.
Speed limit on highway is 130kmh (80mph) and in rare instances 150kmh (93mph), but is not uncommon to see people going over 200kmh (125mph).

Now let's look at some stats on deadly accidents per 100,000 inhabitants, age standardized:

USA - 10.92
Bulgaria - 6.57
Italy - 3.94
Germany - 3.23

USA - 12.4
Bulgaria - 9
Italy - 5.2
Germany - 3.7

OMG. How is that possible??? The land of safety first, speed kills, police everywhere, low limits, has way more road deaths per capita than those reckless countries. And the lowest of all is the one with no speed limit.
Speed doesn't kill. Incompetent drivers kill. You can put the limits to 1mph and they would still find a way to roll over a baby stroller.
In Europe I see a lot of rude drivers, but they usually know what they're doing and paying attention. In America I see nice but incompetent drivers every day and these are the results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Speed doesn't kill. Incompetent drivers kill. You can put the limits to 1mph and they would still find a way to roll over a baby stroller.
In Europe I see a lot of rude drivers, but they usually know what they're doing and paying attention. In America I see nice but incompetent drivers every day and these are the results.

“Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”
-Jeremy Clarkson
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
6,927 Posts
US driver training is weak.
 

·
Registered
2020 Giulia Quattroformaggio, 2020 Stelvio TI Sport
Joined
·
852 Posts
Ooookkkkaaaayyyyyy, meanwhile, back on topic, I'm getting around 22 mpg in A mode in my Quadrifoglio during my 26 mile commute. There's enough city driving to get to the freeway that it's hard to get any better than that. On longer highway trips I've been closer to 25 mpg.
 

·
Premium Member
2018 QV
Joined
·
166 Posts
@Anunnaki Give up; you will never convince an American that it is possible to go fast safely.

OMG. How is that possible??? The land of safety first, speed kills, police everywhere, low limits, has way more road deaths per capita than those reckless countries.
Speed doesn't kill. Incompetent drivers kill. You can put the limits to 1mph and they would still find a way to roll over a baby stroller.
In Europe I see a lot of rude drivers, but they usually know what they're doing and paying attention. In America I see nice but incompetent drivers every day and these are the results.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...don't lump us all into the nanny pile! The interstate here is posted at 75mph and 85 is the norm and it is not dangerous.
You are mostly right that incompetent drivers are the dangerous one but it really is the speed differential that is dangerous.
If everyone is loping along at roughly the same speed, no big deal. BUT when you have 90% of the drivers going 85mph and then a random 10% going 55mph, that's when the problems start.
It's not the collision between two 85mph cars that happen, it's the 85mph vs 50mph.
I would lobby for raising the minimum speed on interstates from 40 to 55mph. If your whatever can't hold 55mph you have no business being on the interstate. And yes, I am fully aware that the interstate system was designed to facilitate mobilizing the military.
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Not the same thing, but in my home town there were folks with modified mopeds that would reach 140kmh.


It's too fast for turns but not for highway straightaways.
@Anunnaki Give up; you will never convince an American that it is possible to go fast safely. Which is interesting since it's the land of muscle cars and 1/4 mile. I suspect the straight roads and automated transmission made people inept at driving.

Growing up in Italy, I can attest that drivers there go much faster and are way more aggressive in all conditions.
Speed limit on highway is 130kmh (80mph) and in rare instances 150kmh (93mph), but is not uncommon to see people going over 200kmh (125mph).

Now let's look at some stats on deadly accidents per 100,000 inhabitants, age standardized:

USA - 10.92
Bulgaria - 6.57
Italy - 3.94
Germany - 3.23

USA - 12.4
Bulgaria - 9
Italy - 5.2
Germany - 3.7

OMG. How is that possible??? The land of safety first, speed kills, police everywhere, low limits, has way more road deaths per capita than those reckless countries. And the lowest of all is the one with no speed limit.
Speed doesn't kill. Incompetent drivers kill. You can put the limits to 1mph and they would still find a way to roll over a baby stroller.
In Europe I see a lot of rude drivers, but they usually know what they're doing and paying attention. In America I see nice but incompetent drivers every day and these are the results.
First, the meaningful statistic is deaths per million km, not deaths per capita. Unfortunately there are few such statistics in the table. Compare USA with Mexico: the deaths per capita are similar, but deaths per million km is much higher in Mexico. The death rate per capita in the USA is raised due to the large distance driven per capita.

Second, yes if everyone is alert, competent and driving a well designed well maintained car much higher speeds are reasonably safe. The problem is that there is no way to achieve that condition, especially in the USA.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
6,927 Posts
Whoa, whoa, whoa...don't lump us all into the nanny pile! The interstate here is posted at 75mph and 85 is the norm and it is not dangerous.
You are mostly right that incompetent drivers are the dangerous one but it really is the speed differential that is dangerous.
If everyone is loping along at roughly the same speed, no big deal. BUT when you have 90% of the drivers going 85mph and then a random 10% going 55mph, that's when the problems start.
It's not the collision between two 85mph cars that happen, it's the 85mph vs 50mph.
I would lobby for raising the minimum speed on interstates from 40 to 55mph. If your whatever can't hold 55mph you have no business being on the interstate. And yes, I am fully aware that the interstate system was designed to facilitate mobilizing the military.
Add lane discipline and poor car maintenance (Germany’s inspections are very thorough).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Richardalfa

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
6,927 Posts
Second, yes if everyone is alert, competent and driving a well designed well maintained car much higher speeds are reasonably safe. The problem is that there is no way to achieve that condition, especially in the USA.
A price of our freedoms?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Richardalfa

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Not the same thing, but in my home town there were folks with modified mopeds that would reach 140kmh.


It's too fast for turns but not for highway straightaways.
@Anunnaki Give up; you will never convince an American that it is possible to go fast safely. Which is interesting since it's the land of muscle cars and 1/4 mile. I suspect the straight roads and automated transmission made people inept at driving.

Growing up in Italy, I can attest that drivers there go much faster and are way more aggressive in all conditions.
Speed limit on highway is 130kmh (80mph) and in rare instances 150kmh (93mph), but is not uncommon to see people going over 200kmh (125mph).

Now let's look at some stats on deadly accidents per 100,000 inhabitants, age standardized:

USA - 10.92
Bulgaria - 6.57
Italy - 3.94
Germany - 3.23

USA - 12.4
Bulgaria - 9
Italy - 5.2
Germany - 3.7

OMG. How is that possible??? The land of safety first, speed kills, police everywhere, low limits, has way more road deaths per capita than those reckless countries. And the lowest of all is the one with no speed limit.
Speed doesn't kill. Incompetent drivers kill. You can put the limits to 1mph and they would still find a way to roll over a baby stroller.
In Europe I see a lot of rude drivers, but they usually know what they're doing and paying attention. In America I see nice but incompetent drivers every day and these are the results.
You are totally right, Brother !!! :)
That is exactly what I was trying to explain, with no avail.
I was many times in Italy for vacations.
The most beautiful country, for me. There is not a single thing that I don't like in your country.
The driving style is just how I like it and most of the drivers are very, very good. Not the case in my country.
BTW congrats for the European Football Title. I always support Italy national team, unless you play against us. :)
Forza Italia.
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
A price of our freedoms?
Yes a price to have freedom for everyone rather than roads built only for society's elite.
Even then, blind people can't drive (yet).
And now we have "pay to play" express lanes. They have the same speed limit as other lanes, but the people driving in them often do not act that way. Use of the lanes is free for carpools, but I'll bet most of the cars are SOV.

You are totally right, Brother !!! :)
That is exactly what I was trying to explain, with no avail.
...
To be clear, I did not say you should not drive your Alfa at or modestly above the excessively high speed limit, at least if you are properly aware of the hazards---as you have already indicated.
I said you should not blame the wrong thing for the high fatality rate in Bulgaria:

The speed limit is too high.

The high speed limit leads to road condition issues. It may not be the only cause, but it definitely is an issue.
The high speed limit leads to the large differential speed to other vehicles, which you already correctly cited as a hazard.
 
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
Top