2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio Brakes upgrade for Track usage
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Do you have exact details or part numbers of those pads, front and rear?
They have many variants; check their catalogue or ask for advice here:
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Bremsen, Bremsscheiben & Bremsbeläge sowie Sportbremsscheiben von Herstellern wie EBC, Ferodo & Tarox im Shop für Audi, BMW, Mercedes & alle anderen
www.bremsen-heinz.de
Google for endless MX72 or MX72plus
There are several distributors in Australia like:
MX72 is a street pad. For track use something like ME20/ME22 might be a better choice.
Different requirements, different solutions:
found this in Porsche community:
Endless MA45b (long-distance surface)
Will be driven at 24h races. A set of pads lasts the whole 24 hours where other pads have to be changed 2-3 times.
Example Raeder Motorsport Audi TT - 3 sets of Pagid RS29 and 2 discs for 1 set of Endless MA45b and one set of discs.
Keeps the pane temperature very low and is very gentle on the pane.
Endless ME20 (sprint brake pads)
Very good initial bit. Very gentle on the disc. Super dosability.
Linear coefficients of friction.
Lasts longer than Pagid RS29 and also has more bite
Endless MX72 (sports brake pads)
Best sports brake pad on the market. Super initial bite. Very quiet, comes with noise sheets.
Worlds better than an EBC Yellostuff.
Pagid RS29
Good covering with an average coefficient of friction. Unfortunately very old technology (over 15 years)
If driven in everyday life, very high disc wear.
PFC08
Good initial bite. Needs temperature to function properly.
Very robust covering. Not all discs tolerate the PFC08 well.
EBC Yellowstuff (sports brake pads)
Sorry I can't say anything positive about this rubber except that it's cheap.
Poor bite, prone to fading, no constant coefficient of friction, very high disc wear at high temperatures.
Anyone who claims the opposite has never driven a Pagid or an Endless.
Ferrodo DS3000
Very old covering over 20 years. No constant coefficient of friction. Extremely eats brake discs
CL Brakes RC6
Always the same coefficient of friction from zero degrees. Super braking performance.
Relatively aggressive to the disc.
found this in Porsche community:
Endless MA45b (long-distance surface)
Will be driven at 24h races. A set of pads lasts the whole 24 hours where other pads have to be changed 2-3 times.
Example Raeder Motorsport Audi TT - 3 sets of Pagid RS29 and 2 discs for 1 set of Endless MA45b and one set of discs.
Keeps the pane temperature very low and is very gentle on the pane.
Endless ME20 (sprint brake pads)
Very good initial bit. Very gentle on the disc. Super dosability.
Linear coefficients of friction.
Lasts longer than Pagid RS29 and also has more bite
Endless MX72 (sports brake pads)
Best sports brake pad on the market. Super initial bite. Very quiet, comes with noise sheets.
Worlds better than an EBC Yellostuff.
Pagid RS29
Good covering with an average coefficient of friction. Unfortunately very old technology (over 15 years)
If driven in everyday life, very high disc wear.
PFC08
Good initial bite. Needs temperature to function properly.
Very robust covering. Not all discs tolerate the PFC08 well.
EBC Yellowstuff (sports brake pads)
Sorry I can't say anything positive about this rubber except that it's cheap.
Poor bite, prone to fading, no constant coefficient of friction, very high disc wear at high temperatures.
Anyone who claims the opposite has never driven a Pagid or an Endless.
Ferrodo DS3000
Very old covering over 20 years. No constant coefficient of friction. Extremely eats brake discs
CL Brakes RC6
Always the same coefficient of friction from zero degrees. Super braking performance.
Relatively aggressive to the disc.
Joined
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16 Posts
Thank you! It looks like the Endless might be a good choice. Does anyone have any experience with using the ME20 with the original rotors? Would this be a good combo for Sprint Track use once a month?
How higher the coefficient of friction of the pads, how more the brake discs will suffer.
I've been riding now the MA45b Endless pads for about 10,000 km, more than 95% of them daily drive, because they should be durable.
On the Nordschleife and Hockenheim I'm about 10-12* in the season, with Hockenheim hitting the brakes a lot more than the Nürburgring NOS.
When the original brake discs are down, I will convert to two-piece discs. Whether Girodisc, GMS or AP depends on availability.
Ultimately, you have to find out the right configuration by yourself (while optimization is a never-ending story).
Have fun and enjoy your hobby
I've been riding now the MA45b Endless pads for about 10,000 km, more than 95% of them daily drive, because they should be durable.
On the Nordschleife and Hockenheim I'm about 10-12* in the season, with Hockenheim hitting the brakes a lot more than the Nürburgring NOS.
When the original brake discs are down, I will convert to two-piece discs. Whether Girodisc, GMS or AP depends on availability.
Ultimately, you have to find out the right configuration by yourself (while optimization is a never-ending story).
Have fun and enjoy your hobby
Joined
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16 Posts
Thank you my friend! I have just ordered the Endless with ME20 Compound. I had my first track day yesterday and I absolutely loved it, the car is just awesome! I took it fairly conservatively under braking, but I could see the OEM pads going down! I look forward to the next session in a month or so with these new pads and report back. I think I will take your approach and use the OEM rotors and once they will need to be replaced, go with Girodisc or GMS. Can you please elaborate on the AP? What are they? Thanks again, Adri
AP-racing is a British Company ( near Birmingham ), look here AP Racing Sportbremsscheiben - at-rs.de
( you can increase Frontrotors from 360mm up to 370mm with origin calibers )
Brake cooling would be desirable, but we have not yet found a satisfactory solution.
Where are you driving ?
What kind of tires you ride? Corsa´s need tire temperature, i prefer Michelin Cup2, the are more tolerant.
Increase your Font & Rear Camber to minus 2 Degrees ( or more in Front ) to avoid bad outside tirewear.
We drive small Toe-In on both axis ( depends on personal preference ).
( you can increase Frontrotors from 360mm up to 370mm with origin calibers )
Brake cooling would be desirable, but we have not yet found a satisfactory solution.
Where are you driving ?
What kind of tires you ride? Corsa´s need tire temperature, i prefer Michelin Cup2, the are more tolerant.
Increase your Font & Rear Camber to minus 2 Degrees ( or more in Front ) to avoid bad outside tirewear.
We drive small Toe-In on both axis ( depends on personal preference ).
Joined
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16 Posts
Thank you for the AP Racing info!
The track I went last Sunday and I can go for a monthly Sprint is The Bend, in the International Circuit configuration, at 4.95km. It is a great track, 100km away from where I live. Here is a link to the track, where you can also get maps.
Motor Racing Circuit | The Bend
www.thebend.com.au
I am on the OEM Corsa, I need to get the tires checked, to see how they went after 3 15min sessions. These Sprint events are organized by the Porsche Club and we were split in 3 groups based on past performance and experience. In the top group there are mainly GT3RS, GT3, GT4RS, and some other highly modified Caymans and there was also a Ferrari 458 Challenge that was the fastest car at 2:00:081. The Porsche guys were around 2:09. I had never been on any track and my first session I did around 2:32, in the second session I did around 2:28 and in the 3rd session I did 2:23:09. I decided not to do the 4 session as I noticed my front pads got considerably smaller after that last 3rd session. The track was really coming to me as I started getting to know what was coming after every corner. The track also has some very nice undulation, so getting to know it a bit was providing very helpful. I never really hit the brakes hard, as I was very concerned about doing any damage to my car, so there is plenty of improvement possible for me just by having brakes I can trust and push hard. Tires felt great! I had an experience Porsche guy helping me out before and in between sessions. Before starting my tires cold where at 33PSI, he suggested I dropped them at 26PSI and we would get a reference point and go from there. We did this because he asked a friend that has a Giulia QV and reckons 32-33 PSI is the sweet spot once at temperature. At the end of the first session I measured mine and starting at 26 they had got to 33. So he suggested I drop one more PSI, which I did. Before the 3rd session he suggested another 1psi drop, but I did not do it, as I felt comfortable where I was. What PSI do you ran on track?
I will post a video of my last two laps in session 3 later on tonight, however, this is a fast lap done by a professional driver in a Giulia QV with KW DDC Coilovers and Michlen Cup 2 tires. His time is 2:09. I would imagine that the KW DDC would help but the driver experience of course is the biggest difference. I am considering getting some coaching from this driver over the next few months.
The owner of this car laps at 2:15:33
They mention about the camber kit to adjust as you say. Are you using a camber/caster kit ? and if so, which one?
We might talk about tires more soon!
AP rotors.
EBC blue are nice pads, there are plenty of others.
shop.alfissimo.com
shop.alfissimo.com
Ferodo
shop.alfissimo.com
Also if we could get Raybestos race, they are tops for sure. They have been backordered forever.
Don't forget brake heat shields.
shop.alfissimo.com
EBC blue are nice pads, there are plenty of others.
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- FRONT
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- FRONT
shop.alfissimo.com
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- Rear
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- Rear
shop.alfissimo.com
Ferodo
Ferodo DS2500-Front pad (Giulia/Stelvio)
shop.alfissimo.com
Also if we could get Raybestos race, they are tops for sure. They have been backordered forever.
Don't forget brake heat shields.
Brake Heat Shield- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV
Brake Heat Shield, non-metallic- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV
shop.alfissimo.com
@Alfissimo For track use would you suggest the AP or Girodisk?AP rotors.
EBC blue are nice pads, there are plenty of others.
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- FRONT
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- FRONT
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- Rear
EBC BLUE STUFF NDX Super-Street & Track day- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV- Rear
Ferodo
Ferodo DS2500-Front pad (Giulia/Stelvio)
Also if we could get Raybestos race, they are tops for sure. They have been backordered forever.
Don't forget brake heat shields.
Brake Heat Shield- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV
Brake Heat Shield, non-metallic- Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio QV
Both excellent. AP is a bit thicker so it will handle the heat likely a bit better.
AP Left/Giro Right
AP has a lot more vanes too, Which will cool and dissipate the heat better but there is a significant cost difference between them. Giro is fantastic and a good price point. AP likely better but also more expensive and should last longer. Both are excellent at what they do.
Joined
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16 Posts
As promised, here is a section of my third and last session last Sunday.
Congratulations on the beautiful circuit in your area. Wide track and wide run-out areas, perfect for training.
Your friend's advice on tire pressure is ok. A proper pressure gauge is essential on the circuit.
You can check the correct pressure for the track and your driving style with a pyrometer or an IR-meter or, best of all, with an IR-camera ( rubber temperature is decisive, not the air temperature of tires, which can be read from inflating-valves).
Negative camber can be increased by placing shims under the front wishbones.
Approx. 15mm shims result in around -2 degrees of camber (caution, a correction of the track is necessary), the GML set primarily ensures that the suspension and the front wheel are centered in the wheelhouse, which otherwise tends to rub at the front of the wheelhouse liner when the shims only be used alone. (This is especially the case with larger tire widths at the front, some friends go up to a 285 tire width on 10J rims at the front). With light sanding, the wheel housing liner at the front of the ventilation grille can be pushed away a little with the help of a hot air gun.
On the subject of chassis: KW DDC should be better than the original dampers, but are still too weak for the circuit, a KW Clubsport, V3 Racing or Competition chassis is better suited.
Don't use ST springs, they are too soft and deep. Reinforced anti-roll bars would reduce lateral roll.
Ultimately you will have to make a decision whether you want to convert it to a track tool or continue to use the wonderful Giulia as a daily driver.
Driving experience and training are much more effective than an unbridled conversion orgy.
Take things slowly, step by step. Over time you will want to optimize one or the other. Now drive first.
Greetings to Australia
Your friend's advice on tire pressure is ok. A proper pressure gauge is essential on the circuit.
You can check the correct pressure for the track and your driving style with a pyrometer or an IR-meter or, best of all, with an IR-camera ( rubber temperature is decisive, not the air temperature of tires, which can be read from inflating-valves).
Negative camber can be increased by placing shims under the front wishbones.
Approx. 15mm shims result in around -2 degrees of camber (caution, a correction of the track is necessary), the GML set primarily ensures that the suspension and the front wheel are centered in the wheelhouse, which otherwise tends to rub at the front of the wheelhouse liner when the shims only be used alone. (This is especially the case with larger tire widths at the front, some friends go up to a 285 tire width on 10J rims at the front). With light sanding, the wheel housing liner at the front of the ventilation grille can be pushed away a little with the help of a hot air gun.
On the subject of chassis: KW DDC should be better than the original dampers, but are still too weak for the circuit, a KW Clubsport, V3 Racing or Competition chassis is better suited.
Don't use ST springs, they are too soft and deep. Reinforced anti-roll bars would reduce lateral roll.
Ultimately you will have to make a decision whether you want to convert it to a track tool or continue to use the wonderful Giulia as a daily driver.
Driving experience and training are much more effective than an unbridled conversion orgy.
Take things slowly, step by step. Over time you will want to optimize one or the other. Now drive first.
Greetings to Australia
Joined
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16 Posts
Thank you for the tips and great lap! I have bought today the new Endless Front Pads, EIP130ME20. Do you know the part number for the equivalent Rear pads?
I fully agree with everything you said. I don't think I want to go extreme mods, just brakes. Ultimately, I might be better off using a different starting platform to build a better track tool. I am considering a highly modified 981 Boxter S or Cayman S. I have seen one last Sunday lapping just a second off a GT3RS. Ultimately the driver will make more of a difference at that very top end!
Here is his lap at 2:06
OneDrive
onedrive.live.com
should be EIP284ME20
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Fantastic, thank you!
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