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I mean obviously that would be sick as f***, but I highly doubt it's possible. Most obviously is the incredibly small amount of room there is to work with in the 4C. If it was gonna work, there would probably need to be a lot of modification to the rear sub-frame and you'd probably have to completely remove that little trunk in the rear all together. I think a more feasible project would be the 2.0 from the base giulia and then just building and tuning that engine to maximize power. You throw 350-400 horses in that 4C and that alone will probably make it quicker than a QV since it's so dang light.
 

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Swapping this drive-train will be incredibly complex with all of the electronics and sensors. Without stand-alone ECMs (2) you will run into a plethora of issues.

Those currently attempting this either have balls of steel or are extremely ignorant to the multitude systems that are required to even get the engine running.
 

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2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
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Retirement gift for Sergio?
 

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Believe me, every time I drive our 4C, as sweet as it is, I lust for the QV engine in the back!

The biggest impediment, other than electronics, would be finding a suitable transaxle. The 4C is transverse mid-engine, whereas the QV engine would obviously need to be placed longitudinally. Beyond that, the 4C transaxle is a dry dual clutch unit, and is basically at the limits with a tuned 4C, so something more stout would need to be fitted.

But, please don't let me tell anyone it can't be done, because if successful it would be sublime...
 

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The biggest impediment, other than electronics, would be finding a suitable transaxle. The 4C is transverse mid-engine, whereas the QV engine would obviously need to be placed longitudinally. Beyond that, the 4C transaxle is a dry dual clutch unit, and is basically at the limits with a tuned 4C, so something more stout would need to be fitted.
Isn't it more or less the old (Giulietta-based) Dart DDCT?
 

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Believe me, every time I drive our 4C, as sweet as it is, I lust for the QV engine in the back!

The biggest impediment, other than electronics, would be finding a suitable transaxle. The 4C is transverse mid-engine, whereas the QV engine would obviously need to be placed longitudinally. Beyond that, the 4C transaxle is a dry dual clutch unit, and is basically at the limits with a tuned 4C, so something more stout would need to be fitted.

But, please don't let me tell anyone it can't be done, because if successful it would be sublime...
That's what I was going to mention. Now I don't need to :smile: The stock engine torque was cut off at the recommended power limit of the transmission.
 

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There’s quite a bit of room in the engine bay, but as stated the issue is getting the power down, meaning transmission/transaxle.....I would bet a Porsche trans with an adapter would likely get it moving.
 

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2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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I believe the QV drive train adds about 300 pounds to Giulia. Adding that much weight to a 4C would throw off the suspension tuning a lot. This sounds more like designing a new car that utilizes the bodywork of a 4C rather than a 4C upgrade.
 

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Might be easier and even more cost effective in the long run to do a 360 or 458 engine swap considering you’re already dealing with a mid-engine and transaxle layout. It might cost way more to start but you’d save a ton on fabrication and development...
 

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Which gearbox is to use?Well you can do the same things Alfa Romeo did in their F12 models.

Is there enough space between seats and rear wheels?
How about cooling the engine and turbos?
Electronics?


After knowing and/or owning some swapped cars I wouldn't even think about it...


Best regards
Waldek
 

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Might be easier and even more cost effective in the long run to do a 360 or 458 engine swap considering you’re already dealing with a mid-engine and transaxle layout. It might cost way more to start but you’d save a ton on fabrication and development...
Neither of those two cars have transversely mounted engines. Unless you're not talking about the Ferraris.



Some notes:
- Hoping the longitudinally mounted engine will fit in a car that has it's engine mounted transversely. Not just length of the engine, but the width (firewall to rear bumper)
- Hoping a there's a transaxle that can support the power/torque of the V6
- Hoping that transaxle, when bolted to the engine, will fit between the rear chassis rails, without requiring major chassis redesign
- Having to drill into the carbon tub to feed shifter cables thru, unless you find a DSG transaxle (think, VW GTI) that can support that, which you'll then have to figure out how to get the GCU to talk to the engine.
- Wondering what to do with the flappy paddles now that they don't work if you have a manual transmission
- Wondering how to fit a clutch pedal in a car that was never offered a clutch pedal
- Wondering how to fit a clutch master cylinder in a car that was never offered a clutch pedal
- If the chassis does need to be cut/redesigned, hoping you find someone smart enough to do it.
- Building the transaxle to engine adapter, then finding the correct clutch and pressure plate to mate to the flywheel (may require a custom flywheel).
- Finding the room to house intercoolers in the 4c for the V6.
- Hoping the additional heat in the engine bay can be overcome with the mid-engine design, since mid-engine cars are notorious for running hotter than their front engined counterparts.
- Hoping the weight distribution isn't severely altered where you would have to do a lot of suspension tuning to solve.
- Fuel system would require upgrading
- Wheels would need to be wider. The 4c is ~9.5lbs/hp... it's not pushing crazy amounts of power thru it's 235 rear tires.
- Doing all of this within a reasonable price to support the project.


And that's the short list. Still got to think about emissions, ecu tuning, traction control, stability control, etc, etc.
As "pure" of a driving experience as 4c owners want you to think it is, there's a lot of computer involvement in the whole thing. And getting the computers to co-exist is very difficult/timing consuming/expensive ...

Nothing is impossible, it's all about how much money do you have.
 

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There’s quite a bit of room in the engine bay, but as stated the issue is getting the power down, meaning transmission/transaxle.....I would bet a Porsche trans with an adapter would likely get it moving.
Hmm... The 4C engine/transaxle pair is out of a front wheel drive Giulietta. The engine sits above the transaxle, not in front like a P-car. I do not see where/how you can easily place an engine down low in front of a transaxle. I'm thinking the wheel base would need to be stretched and an all new rear clip built. The good news is that everything is bolt-on to the carbon fiber tub.

Another thing to think about would be the weight. I have to assume that the V6 weighs more than the inline 4 does. Currently, the 4C has a 40/60 balance and (US spec) weighs just under 2500 pounds. (I scaled my 4C when I first bought it.) Yes, the extra weight can be dealt with by using different springs, anti-roll bars and/or shocks.

Impossible? No.
Easy? No.
 

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Neither of those two cars have transversely mounted engines. Unless you're not talking about the Ferraris.



Some notes:
- Hoping the longitudinally mounted engine will fit in a car that has it's engine mounted transversely. Not just length of the engine, but the width (firewall to rear bumper)
- Hoping a there's a transaxle that can support the power/torque of the V6
- Hoping that transaxle, when bolted to the engine, will fit between the rear chassis rails, without requiring major chassis redesign
- Having to drill into the carbon tub to feed shifter cables thru, unless you find a DSG transaxle (think, VW GTI) that can support that, which you'll then have to figure out how to get the GCU to talk to the engine.
- Wondering what to do with the flappy paddles now that they don't work if you have a manual transmission
- Wondering how to fit a clutch pedal in a car that was never offered a clutch pedal
- Wondering how to fit a clutch master cylinder in a car that was never offered a clutch pedal
- If the chassis does need to be cut/redesigned, hoping you find someone smart enough to do it.
- Building the transaxle to engine adapter, then finding the correct clutch and pressure plate to mate to the flywheel (may require a custom flywheel).
- Finding the room to house intercoolers in the 4c for the V6.
- Hoping the additional heat in the engine bay can be overcome with the mid-engine design, since mid-engine cars are notorious for running hotter than their front engined counterparts.
- Hoping the weight distribution isn't severely altered where you would have to do a lot of suspension tuning to solve.
- Fuel system would require upgrading
- Wheels would need to be wider. The 4c is ~9.5lbs/hp... it's not pushing crazy amounts of power thru it's 235 rear tires.
- Doing all of this within a reasonable price to support the project.


And that's the short list. Still got to think about emissions, ecu tuning, traction control, stability control, etc, etc.
As "pure" of a driving experience as 4c owners want you to think it is, there's a lot of computer involvement in the whole thing. And getting the computers to co-exist is very difficult/timing consuming/expensive ...

Nothing is impossible, it's all about how much money do you have.
Great post.

Most engine swaps these days are working with much more primative cars.

Think an LS into a Miata. You have one ECU to worry about and everything else is a mechanical connection, and it's STILL hard.

Additional power is not always the right solution for a chassis and often is the wrong one.
 

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Shogun, anyone?
 

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^Yes, love those

Hmm... The 4C engine/transaxle pair is out of a front wheel drive Giulietta. The engine sits above the transaxle, not in front like a P-car. I do not see where/how you can easily place an engine down low in front of a transaxle. I'm thinking the wheel base would need to be stretched and an all new rear clip built. The good news is that everything is bolt-on to the carbon fiber tub.

Another thing to think about would be the weight. I have to assume that the V6 weighs more than the inline 4 does. Currently, the 4C has a 40/60 balance and (US spec) weighs just under 2500 pounds. (I scaled my 4C when I first bought it.) Yes, the extra weight can be dealt with by using different springs, anti-roll bars and/or shocks.

Impossible? No.
Easy? No.
Engine above transaxle? Not from what I’ve seen.
Also, I’m not saying it would be easy, just a saying if it was to be done, that would be the easiest way. Not sure about the weight difference though, and yes it would surely make the car unpredictable to drive, and likely quite a bit dangerous.
 
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