Steel Rotors for CCB Car? - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum
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post #21 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 04:37 AM
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Call me Al speaks the truth from experience pushing a CCB car hard in track. Hard driven even the CCB have their limitations on the QV (pads moreso than rotors).

Collaborator. I understand your initial question. I run Porsche GT3/4 on the track and itís common for our guys to replace CCB with Steel on track.

However the idea of swapping between the systems is neither practical or Viable IMO. The swept pad area on the CCB system is over 18% larger than with the steel pad. You would need to change the pads as the CCB pads will not be optimal for use in steel. I do not believe such a pad exists. Furthermore you can only change the pads on the QV if you use the factory Witec tool as the caliper requires the tool to spread and release the pad....

This really IMO seems too much work and expense for an occasional track day. Run the CCB system you have and enjoy 3-4 hard track days between pad changes budgeting for the addition pad costsis best ai think?

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post #22 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 01:46 PM
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looking at it from a daily point of view, if you are OK with the pad costs for an extended use (swapping sides as suggested), but you find the rotors don't last as hoped/expected, then (subject to future availabilty) switching to big steel rotors and compatible pads would be an OK gamble.

then you have to think about rotor damage when the wheels are removed - those rotors don't have much clearance to the rims, and if they are that fragile ....
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post #23 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 05:10 PM
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Remember at this time there are no pads for steel rotors available in CCB caliper/pad sizes and to be honest I can’t see any demand for a vendor to create a set, whereas for the steel caliper there are now 6+ options including EBC, Hawk x2, OEM/Brembo and Ferodo x 2 with another half a dozen options in the pipeline for 2018 from vendors such as PFC, Brembo and Ferodo.

To be perfectly honest the idea track set up for this car is a two piece 380mmx32mm Front steel slotted rotor from Brembo/PFC with a decent enduro pad such as Ferodo DS1.11 (on their way I believe) or RT RE10. Most essential will be some additional cooling ducts such as those Al is investigating - the biggest contributor to the massive wear rates on the steel set up on the track currently is due to thermal stress...

If using CCB extensively on the track my preference would be to revert to a 5 stud kit rather than use the factory bolts. This will allow the wheel to be more easily removed without the risk of chipping the rotor edge. This is a real risk as previously noted, just look on eBay and you will see a vendor already selling a edge chipped QV CCB rotor!!

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post #24 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
If using CCB extensively on the track my preference would be to revert to a 5 stud kit rather than use the factory bolts. This will allow the wheel to be more easily removed without the risk of chipping the rotor edge. This is a real risk as previously noted, just look on eBay and you will see a vendor already selling a edge chipped QV CCB rotor!!
This was precisely the reason we developed our titanium stud conversion kit. It is actually very easy to clip the edge of the rotor when pulling such a large wheel and tire off, especially on the front where there is very little clearance at all.

If you have the steel brakes (or a non-QV Giulia) the stud conversion kit is still a very nice convenience.

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post #25 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 06:32 AM
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I look at those brakes and think they are so cool - and I know either I or a service guy will whack em.
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post #26 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 08:01 PM
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All good information on a weak part of this car. I really think the problem is that the wheel wells are so tight with the tires thereís not enough wheel well ventilation to cool the brakes enough to make them last as long as they would on other cars that have better wheel well ventilation.

For example most cars you can increase the tires width 20 mm with no problem but this car you can do that on the back but thatís pushing in and they rub a bit but on the the front you can only go 10mm wider or you will rub on the plastic inner fender wells and even risk rubbing into the wiring harness as what happened to me with my 20 mm wider tires I tried. Granted I have lowering springs on which reduces the clearance oversized tire widths somewhat but still I wouldnít try more than the 10mm which I recommend with zero rubbing. FYI the lowering springs do help quite a bit with the longevity of both brakes and tires not to mention make the car handle a lot better.

I will be starting on my front brake cooling ducs mod within a month and hopefully shortly afterwards have some good news. And this mod will work on both types of brakes (CCB and steel).

And I highly recommend the lug bolt to lug stud conversion it makes changing tires so much easier. And with CCB you really have to be careful that you donít drop a tire on a rotor and chip it. Which means you either do the work yourself carefully or you must be able to really trust who works on your car. Doesnít hurt to remind the service person you have CCB brakes.

FYI the Corvette CCB brakes come with a ďtoolĒ. Basically the tool is something like a Styrofoam 3/4Ē water pipe insulation that you are to fit onto the carbon rotor through the spokes on the wheel before you take it off! Ha maybe Corvette owners need extra help!!

Iím just careful when I do it, sitting completely on the ground and donít think Iíll ever have a problem. Itís only when you bang the wheels on and off like a lot of people do that it could cause you a problem, abit an exspensive one!
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post #27 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Much thanks for all of the info Call me Al! Your posts are hugely helpful. With everything you’ve said, I think I’ll pull the wheels off and bring um to the tire shop when the time comes.

Really looking forward to the results of your brake ducts! Best of luck!
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post #28 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 05:56 PM
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Hey GiuliaForum members, my first post. So, please be kind!

Anyone know of any aftermarket FNC steel style rotors to replace the original steel from Alfa?
I'm looking to replace the rotors as they rust up real quick and create a lot of break dust, mess in the rims!

I've crawled the web, with no luck!
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post #29 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 09:58 PM
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Would the OP be better off finding a QV owner with steel rotors who wanted to swap the carbon brake system over. You donít happen to have yellow calipers do you?

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post #30 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-18-2018, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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I did a little more legwork on this front. I spoke to Eric, an extremely helpful tech at StopTech, about the possibility of them either offering a 380mm cast iron Big Brake Kit, or creating cast iron replacement rotors for our OEM calipers. They've not seen much demand for a BBK yet, so there is nothing in the cards there atm. BUT, he was exceptionally helpful with providing information about replacement iron rotors. Even though StopTech isn't interested in creating the rotors themselves, Eric did some dimension checking on a few things:

  • StopTech's 309.13820 high performance street / light performance track pads will fit in our front calipers. These pads are for cast iron applications, with street tires. The pads themselves are 5mm shorter off the bottom, but that's in line with the surface area of the theoretical iron rotors vs the CC rotors. These pads are $135 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/StopTech-309-1.../dp/B003K2IPUW. Other more track focused pads are also available in this size, but I do not have part numbers for those.

  • Girodisc's Nissan GTR cast iron replacement rings should correctly fit on our axles/calipers. A custom aluminum hat would almost certainly need to get manufactured for our application. The GTR complete rotors are $1300, and the replacement rings are $800. www.girodisc.com/Rotors_c_952.htm As I mentioned earlier in this thread (back in January), Girodisc is "very interested" in building a solution for us, but would need 5 buyers and need to borrow a front & rear CCB rotor for measurement before they could get going on them.
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