Moderator's note: The above quote has been added with EuroCompulsion's approval. It's from post 1041 (https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/802-vendor-deals/29865-euro-drive-alfa-romeo-giulia-2-0l-tuning-official-thread-105.html#post698884) of this thread. This answers the single most asked question in this thread.
EURO+DRIVE® Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0l Tuning (Official Thread)
Chris@Eurocompulsion
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Fingers Crossed for removal of top speed limiter and ability to disable start/stop.Its on deck..soon
Just a really quick OT for the AC failure sufferers upthread...it’s a known problem with a TSB and software fix. As posted by @jwq2:
http://home.planet.nl/~jwq/giulia/climate update.pdf
http://home.planet.nl/~jwq/giulia/climate update.pdf
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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Thanks, so with the EC tune you appear to be getting better than stock performance even at 0.82 atmospheres of air pressure. EC doesn't have any data on the altitude issue and one thing making me hesitant is if I will get any power increase in the 6500-10000 foot elevation range.
EC: I do not understand the purpose of turning down maximum power in A mode, I do not think it helps fuel economy unless the driver is a "lead foot". What I think is important in A mode is keeping RPM low, shifts smooth, and converter locked. Also, as another forum member already noted it makes no sense at all for the car to be slow to respond to paddle shift requests in any mode.
With the stock A mode the car seems too eager to downshift on slight inclines and too reluctant to shift into 8th gear.
I notice that engine braking seems to be more aggressive in D versus A. I presume that is good for fuel economy and so sort of a desired behavior.
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Hi Lockem,
I've only had the P1 tune for less than 24 hours, but I can say with certainty that the performance on my Giulia Ti is already noticeably improved and I'm at 7000 feet ! I've put about 200 miles on the car since last night, but the difference was evident right from the get-go.
I did let Chris at EuroCompulsion know beforehand that my car lived at 7000 feet. He said he would pass that information on to Toby who would be preparing the tune file. I don't know if Toby changed anything in the tune though to optimize the performance for altitude. Maybe it doesn't make any difference with these engines ??
Perhaps if Toby is reading this thread, he can comment about the effects of altitude on the tune mods..
Tony
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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Altitude causes a close to air pressure proportional degradation of performance of naturally aspirated engines. However turbo chargers can compensate to a limited extent for the reduced air pressure. The parameters of this compensation are not so obvious and can range from the extreme of the tune using up all of the capacity of the turbo charger at sea level so that no compensation is available at altitude to turbo boost being limited only by the ability of the engine (or transmission) to not blow up and no power loss at all at higher altitude (turbo lag will still get worse, though). The truth presumably lies somewhere between these two extremes such that the car will maintain full sea level power up to some altitude, then it will start to drop off.
Maybe a drive to Pike's Peak is needed somewhere along the way?
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Lockem, if they can down grade power Id like to try it precisely because i like to drive with a lead foot. You know how you can have a blast in a car with a small naturally aspirated motor? My bet is that's how it will feel especially if the manual shifting is quick. I think everyone would like manual downshift to be faster.
By the way, took her to a track night in america event last night. She was fantastic. Even with my very limited skills. On the straights thanks to the tune i could keep up with an Audi S5 no problem. Thanks EC. On curves the Alfa is in another class.
The Audi had in intake and exhaust. No tune. V8.
EC: what about a "quick restore to factory" option?
EC
Oh, yes. Indeed an increase at altitude.
I enjoy you sharp wits and geek-speak on this forum, so I’d like to elaborate my reply...
First let me preface, this is a subjective impresssion, in lieu of dyno data to back it up.
I had the opportunity during the T57 update to drive the car for a few days after down-grading the P1 tune back to stock, and drove it enough to have the ECU performance parameters auto adjust back to stock+150 miles, which re-establishes (improves) the performance (same as the post P1 upgrade 200 miles or so, the car “learns” how to be fast). Immediately after the downgrade, Giulia takes a very obvious performance hit, loses its’ neato N mode downshifting, gets a little clunky shifting from a deadstop during regular driving, etc.; and, mind you, this was all pre-T57 updates, so truly apples to apples. The V2 intake and Corsa exhaust were both installed, so not entirely a stocker — a little HP increase from both, with improved low-end torque improved by (mostly) the V2.
My driving includes a weekly session in the nearby canyons, which take me from my base of 5,300 to 8,888 (Wondervu, CO) where I turn-around. I did have a session just so, the day before my T57 service, and a couple of observations (again subjective) were:
1) I know this stretch of road quite well, and have a series of turns and charges pretty close to the high elevation, where, with the P1 tune, the car breaks traction exiting turns, gets minor nannies/and/or LSD correction+FWD intervention, after getting slightly sideways. Without the tune, no such corrections.
2) on a particular short straight, after WOT from prior turn, I enter the next turn at, (not wanting to self incriminate) let’s say X mph. Post de-tune, my entry speeds was fully 10mph less (X-10). This was pretty close to the 8,888 ft turnaround.
3) Just in general, even at elevation N mode was back to N mode (plus better sound and torque), D mode was still tasty, but not snappy
A final comment, the Alfa ECU does compensate for the reduced APressure, which I can see in the ODBII data stream. Seems to request 2-4 additional PSI boost up to about 8,500 ft, afterwhich it just does its’ best. Mind you, I’m starting at 5,300, not sea level. As is said, the driver mostly lives on torque for daily driving, and the P1 tune substantially increases torque, which is undenyable in the “jump” of the car.
I would say that the performance of the Giulia at 9,000 with P1 outperforms, by a noticable margin, the 5,300 foot performance of my untuned car. I doubt you’ll be unimpressed. Just my 2cents.
Out,:nerd:
Hey Lockem,
I enjoy you sharp wits and geek-speak on this forum, so I’d like to elaborate my reply...
First let me preface, this is a subjective impresssion, in lieu of dyno data to back it up.
I had the opportunity during the T57 update to drive the car for a few days after down-grading the P1 tune back to stock, and drove it enough to have the ECU performance parameters auto adjust back to stock+150 miles, which re-establishes (improves) the performance (same as the post P1 upgrade 200 miles or so, the car “learns” how to be fast). Immediately after the downgrade, Giulia takes a very obvious performance hit, loses its’ neato N mode downshifting, gets a little clunky shifting from a deadstop during regular driving, etc.; and, mind you, this was all pre-T57 updates, so truly apples to apples. The V2 intake and Corsa exhaust were both installed, so not entirely a stocker — a little HP increase from both, with improved low-end torque improved by (mostly) the V2.
My driving includes a weekly session in the nearby canyons, which take me from my base of 5,300 to 8,888 (Wondervu, CO) where I turn-around. I did have a session just so, the day before my T57 service, and a couple of observations (again subjective) were:
1) I know this stretch of road quite well, and have a series of turns and charges pretty close to the high elevation, where, with the P1 tune, the car breaks traction exiting turns, gets minor nannies/and/or LSD correction+FWD intervention, after getting slightly sideways. Without the tune, no such corrections.
2) on a particular short straight, after WOT from prior turn, I enter the next turn at, (not wanting to self incriminate) let’s say X mph. Post de-tune, my entry speeds was fully 10mph less (X-10). This was pretty close to the 8,888 ft turnaround.
3) Just in general, even at elevation N mode was back to N mode (plus better sound and torque), D mode was still tasty, but not snappy
A final comment, the Alfa ECU does compensate for the reduced APressure, which I can see in the ODBII data stream. Seems to request 2-4 additional PSI boost up to about 8,500 ft, afterwhich it just does its’ best. Mind you, I’m starting at 5,300, not sea level. As is said, the driver mostly lives on torque for daily driving, and the P1 tune substantially increases torque, which is undenyable in the “jump” of the car.
I would say that the performance of the Giulia at 9,000 with P1 outperforms, by a noticable margin, the 5,300 foot performance of my untuned car. I doubt you’ll be unimpressed. Just my 2cents.
Out,:nerd:
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The ECU takes care of this with ease. There are multiple parameters associated with atmospheric pressure and elevation (based on temperature and other environmental factors) that can determine a given pressure ratio, compressor speed and air flow based on said conditions. This is something that I look at and adjust for difference scenarios as part of the tune. One difference you will see is turbo spool and lag (may come on 300-500 rpm sooner or later, depending on the elevation). But that's just the nature of the same turbo in different locations. Overall, based on these parameters the ECU will adjust this data to satisfy torque demand and boost in different conditions without over spinning or demanding more than the turbo can handle at the same levels of torque and boost at different locations. Other limiters and safety parameters also prevent this from happening, so that the only real performance differences will be experienced in very extreme locations (hill climb to Mt. Everest).
You'd be surprised at the lengths they go to within the ECU programming to make this as universal as possible and account for just about anywhere or anything.
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Unfortunately, I must say no to both inquiries. What most probably don't realize is that A mode is already almost on the 200hp level at WOT depending on the gear selected. That is one mode I would rather just leave be, other than improving a few small things that have more to do with drivability than performance.
Communication protocol cannot access a read/write "stream" if you will with the ECU over the CANbus system. The Giulia is unique in this manner. In order to rewrite the ECU, it must be rewritten in full. There is no constant signal of change to the ECU file parameters, so that it can simply just be turned off or reset quickly with the push of a button or unplugging something. To rewrite the ECU back to stock, it must be rewritten in full the same way it was modified initially.
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THANK YOU Toby!
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Thanks for the info.
Toby, I sent you an email about the above link and whether the stock ecu will need to be read again after having listed bulletin done.
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bump cuz I'm dying for those pops and bangs >
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Sent you a reply, I apologize for the delay. Hopefully it was helpful to you.
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We're working on it. It is slow going at the moment, we have a number of projects going on at once that are all of equal importance and priority (including the Giulia). So it is slowing us down slightly.well for my 200th post, ill bump this thread in hopes on the news
I should have some news in the next couple weeks. I have a lot of things to test.
Quick question guys,
1- what happens when you take the car for service and the update the software.
2- Can the dealer detect the ECU was reflashed?
3- Is there an installation video I can watch - I am used to re-flashing other cars, (honda, Subaru - and the process is pretty straight forward). Why does the Giulia take so long and needs to reved to 6K rpm? Did I miss something in the information I read?
Thanks, really on the fence...
1- what happens when you take the car for service and the update the software.
2- Can the dealer detect the ECU was reflashed?
3- Is there an installation video I can watch - I am used to re-flashing other cars, (honda, Subaru - and the process is pretty straight forward). Why does the Giulia take so long and needs to reved to 6K rpm? Did I miss something in the information I read?
Thanks, really on the fence...
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Go to this page, https://shopeurocompulsion.net/coll...iulia-product-arrivals/products/euro-drive-tuning-system-alfa-romeo-giulia-2-0l
Scroll down and you'll see a link to the install instructions as well as an install video. When you get the EC tune, you will have both your stock and the modified tune file in the OBDII device, so you can re-install the original stock file anytime you wish. A lot of users reinstall the stock tune prior to getting the car serviced. If the service doesn't require a software update to the ECU, then you just reinstall the EC tune when you get the car back. If an Alfa update is done to the ECU, then you read it and send it to EC who will modify your EC tune (based on the new Alfa update). You then install the new EC tune on your ECU and you also have the updated stock file too. No charge for the updated EC tune. My Alfa dealer service manager was not concerned that I installed an EC tune... He actually sounded like he thought it was a good idea. He said as long as the tune didn't cause something to break, then no warranty problem.
My car is a lease, so I'll just put the stock tune back when I turn the car in. So far I'm quite pleased with the P1 tune.
What I am understanding if that P1 and P2 are included in the purchase price, but that future calibrations will have to be paid for ?
Does this handheld allow dataloging to send information back to EC?
If all I have in the V2 intake, Will I benefit from the P2 maps?
Does this handheld allow dataloging to send information back to EC?
If all I have in the V2 intake, Will I benefit from the P2 maps?
over the weekend installed EC v1 intake, woosh woosh , car got more lively and even my exhaust note changed (maybe its just me but sounds like the straightpipes got louder) i imagine that with p2 or p2+ stock 225 tires wont be enough to keep the traction even with summer performance tires lol
, car got more lively and even my exhaust note changed (maybe its just me but sounds like the straightpipes got louder) i imagine that with p2 or p2+ stock 225 tires wont be enough to keep the traction even with summer performance tires lol861 - 880 of 1,479 Posts
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